Session LXXIX 18 December 2759

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This is a report of a session of the Nova Roma Senate of a.d. XV Kal. Ian. , C. Buteone Po. Minucia cos. MMDCCLIX a.u.c..



Senate Voting Results

The Senate was called to order on Dec. 18th 2006 (2759 AUC). The Contio was held on agenda items until Dec. 22nd 2006

Voting on the agenda items was then held from Dec. 22nd , 24:00 to Dec. 28th 2006, 24:00 (time of Rome).

On 28th of December, the latest session of the Senate of Nova Roma was declared closed by the Consul Pompeia Minucia Strabo, in which 27 of the 36 senatores voted, fulfilling the quorum needed for the session.


Here are the list of the voting Senators, alphabetically listed by nomen:

  • [FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar
  • [LAF] Lucius Arminius Faustus
  • [MBA] Marcus Bianchius Antonius
  • [ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica
  • [CCS] Caius Curius Saturninus
  • [GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
  • [LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
  • [GFBM] Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
  • [CFBQ] Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
  • [QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus
  • [CFD] Caius Flavius Diocletianus
  • [TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
  • [AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
  • [MMPH] Marcus Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
  • [MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus
  • [DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
  • [LMS] Lucius Minicius Sceptius
  • [MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens
  • [PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo
  • [MOG] Marcus Octavius Gracchus
  • [TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
  • [GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas
  • [GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur
  • [JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna
  • [LSA] Lucius Sergius Australicus
  • [QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
  • [ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato


The following senatores failed to vote in this session:

  • [SAS] Sextus Apollonius Scipio
  • [MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior
  • [MCJ] Marcus Cassius Julianus
  • [PC] Patricia Cassia
  • [MCS] Manius Constantinus Serapio
  • [TLF] Titus Labienus Fortunatus
  • [GL] Gaia Livia
  • [GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus
  • [FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus

ITEM I: Formation of an Internal Financial Audit Committee

  • [FAC] VTI ROGAS
  • [LAF] VTI ROGAS. I really do not understand why some Senatores votes NO on that.

It must be done anyway otherwise NR finantial state will get even more sour. If the sake of the Republic is at stake, I won’t be ´offended´ if a Senatus Consultum bind me to do something during my consulship next year. It is the duty of the Senate make the long term strategies for the magistrates to undertake. The magistratures are too short to make planning. I urge the Senatores to consider deeply this subject and I make mine the words of Cato the Younger: "It is by vigilance, activity, and prudent measures, that general welfare is secured. When you are once resigned to sloth and indolence, it is in vain that you implore the gods" (Porcius Cato, apud Salustius, De Bello Catilina)

  • [MBA] ANTIQVO: I think we need to define this a bit more but I like the idea.
  • [ECF] VTI ROGAS
  • [CCS] VTI ROGAS
  • [GEM] VTI ROGAS : Like Caesar's wife, our finances must not only be above

reproach, they must be seen to be above reproach

  • [LECA] ANTIQVO: I am convinced by Laenas' argument
  • [GFBM] VTI ROGAS
  • [CFBQ] VTI ROGAS
  • [QFM] ANTIQVO: The idea has merit, but this too late in the year to run this

through. It appears that it is a blatant attempt to have us "rubber stamp" something which needs to studied further. That this year's lame duck Consuls should have the power to appoint half of the committee, is simply wrong, and has the appearance of patronage. As L. Cornelius Sulla once proposed, any "auditor" position must be a hire, and not a citizen of Nova Roma or a board member of NR INC.

  • [CFD] ANTIQVO
  • [TGP] ANTIQUO (No) I do agree with our Consul that a committee should be formed

and I commend her for her efforts on this issue. If this issue had come to light sooner I would have supported it. I would like this deferred till next year ( Jan 2).

  • [AMA] VTI ROGAS
  • [MMPH] Uti Rogas. This proposal concerns the commission of a Senate committee

to conduct an internal audit and a review of budgeting procedures in the coming year under the Consules of 2760. It advises our Consules designati to cooperate with our current Consules in forming the committee. It asks the Consules designati to "consider" additional recommendations. While reading objections raised against this proposal by some of our distinguished members, it seemed to me that their concerns were with what may grow out of the committee's effort. I share in some of the concerns that were expressed, but think it best that we first establish the Senate committee to review the situation and report to the full Senate on its recommendations.

  • [MIP] ANTIQVO
  • [DIPI] ANTIQVO
  • [LMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MMA] VTI ROGAS: I see no problem with the way in which the proposal is worded

nor do I see any attempt at any manipulation on the part of either of the current Consuls. I trust both as I trust the Consuls-Elect to make the best arrangements possible for Nova Roma, with their colleagues.

  • [PMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MOG] VTI ROGAS - with the further suggestion that this committee produce

documents that will be archived in the Wiki.

  • [TOPA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GPL] ANTIQVO: I support this idea, but I feel it is a matter than should fall

to the Consuls elect. I don't understand why this year's Consuls should have the power to appoint half of the committee (and in fact 6 is too many in my opinion - three is the normal number in corporations), and I don't like the suggestion that any "auditor" position be elected. In such an appointment, politics and popularity should be avoided. Our chief financial officer/auditor should be appointed by the Board and be more a function of our not-for-profit corporation than Nova Roma per se. This needs more discussion and needs to be lead by the Consuls elect.

  • [GSA] VTI ROGAS
  • [JSM] Antiquo. Of course this is a prudent idea, however, the incoming consuls

deserve a greater role and the Senate

  • [LSA] ANTIQUO -- This is a good start but needs further tweaking before it is

ready as a plan. The Consuls-elect are already in agreement with the idea, so it seems to be an empty gesture to ask them to follow it. I think also that we need to be certain the final plan provides for the involvement of a person qualified to perform auditing. I'm not certain that the appointment of a senator and the election of a second auditor by the populace will reliably accomplish that. Let the new Consuls take this forward toward what it needs to be.

  • [QSP] VTI ROGAS
  • [ATMC] VTI ROGAS


Results of Item I: Uti Rogas, 17; Antiquo, 10; Abstineo, 0. PASSED

ITEM II: OFFICIAL BOUNDARIES OF CANADA ORIENTALIS AND CANADA OCCIDENTALIS PROVINCIAE

  • [FAC] ANTIQVO: It is not necessary, this kind of organizational aspects should

be in the hands of the governors passing not for the Senatus.

  • [LAF] ANTIQVO
  • [MBA] ANTIQVO - Internal boundaries are the responsibility of the governor
  • [ECF] VTI ROGAS
  • [CCS] VTI ROGAS: An extraordinary decision for Senate to take, but provinces are

requesting this decision and I see no reason to say no.

  • [GEM] VTI ROGAS -- I understand the need for the Senate to define the boundaries

of these two provinces due to ongoing changes in the geography of the Northwest Passage. I remain skeptical of the advisability of the Senate defining the interior regions of any province, and I recommend that the Senate revisit this issue next year after consultation with the two Canadian governors. I hope that at that time the authority for defining interior regions will be returned to the two Canadian governors.

  • [LECA] ANTIQVO: I agree with Octavius
  • [GFBM] VTI ROGAS
  • [CFBQ] VTI ROGAS
  • [QFM] ANTIQVO The Provincial Praetors have the Imperium to divide their

provinces as they see fit to administer. They need not come to the Senate for confirmation. The Senate does not want to revisit every minor province boundary re-division each time it happens. That's not our job.

  • [CFD] ANTIQVO: Each governor may organize his/her province by his own

discretion. This contains both the organization of his provicial staff and the territorial layout inside the provincial boundaries. It isn´t necessary to get a Senatus Consultum about this.

  • [TGP] ANTIQUO (No) I agree that the overall boundaries of our provinces should

to be set by the Senate. However internal organization needs to be left to the Praetors, etc to deal with. They are the "boots on the ground" and I believe we should defer internal organization to them. [AMA] VTI ROGAS

  • [MMPH] VTI ROGAS
  • [MIP] ANTIQVO
  • [DIPI] ANTIQVO
  • [LMS] ANTIQVO
  • [MMA] VTI ROGAS: While I agree that Regio boundaries within a Provinces are the

matter of the Provincial Staff normally, the present Consuls have asked the Senate for assistance in this particular situation and gives their reasoning for such a request. I believe that the Senate can and should respond to requests for assistance of this kind, if the assistance asked for can smooth the way for decision making in and for the provinces which are the life-blood of Nova Roma.

  • [PMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MOG] ANTIQUO. The Senate shouldn't define internal organization of a province

- and one of those region names doesn't sound even remotely Roman

  • [TOPA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GPL] VTI ROGAS
  • [GSA] ABSTINEO
  • [JSM] ANTIQVO: Antiquo. I too believe that it is needless for the Senate to

micromanage or usurp the powers delegated to provincial magistrates.

  • [LSA] UTI ROGAS -- I see nothing wrong with the Senate ratifying a plan that has

been agreed upon by the magistrates involved.

  • [QSP] VTI ROGAS
  • [ATMC] ANTIQVO: This is within the jurisdiction of the provincial magistrates.

Results of Item II: Uti Rogas, 12; Antiquo, 13; Abstineo, 1. NOT PASSED

ITEM III: The Senate hereby appoints Marcus Minucius Audens Consular to a further two year term of Editor Commentariorum Senioris, years 2760 and 2761 AUC.

  • [FAC] VTI ROGAS: The better man for the voice of NR.
  • [LAF] VTI ROGAS
  • [MBA] VTI ROGAS
  • [ECF] VTI ROGAS
  • [CCS] VTI ROGAS
  • [GEM] VTI ROGAS : There is no one better suited in terms of knowledge, temperament, and experience
  • [LECA] ABSTINEO
  • [GFBM] VTI ROGAS
  • [CFBQ] VTI ROGAS
  • [QFM] VTI ROGAS: No one has worked harder on the publication then Marcus

Minucius

  • [CFD] VTI ROGAS
  • [TGP] ANTIQVO
  • [AMA] VTIROGAS
  • [MMPH] VTI ROGAS
  • [MIP] VTI ROGAS
  • [DIPI] VTI ROGAS
  • [LMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MMA] ABSTINEO
  • [PMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MOG] ABSTINEO. Is this position clearly defined anywhere? Is it advisory, or

does it have decision-making powers? I think the Senate needs to consider, as a whole, a plan for reinvigorating a printed newsletter. We need a printed publication for our credibility.

  • [TOPA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GPL] VTI ROGAS
  • [GSA] VTI ROGAS
  • [JSM] VTI ROGAS
  • [LSA] VTI ROGAS
  • [QSP] VTI ROGAS
  • [ATMC] VTI ROGAS

Results of Item III: Uti Rogas, 23; Antiquo, 1; Abstineo, 3. PASSED


Items IV -VII are the proposed constitutional amendments presented to this august body earlier this year for advice. They have all been approved by the Comitia Centuriata and the Consuls request your final ratification

Item IV: PROPOSED AMENDMENT I

Section II "Citizens and Gentes"

  • [FAC] ABSTINEO
  • [LAF] VTI ROGAS.
  • [MBA] VTI ROGAS
  • [ECF] VTI ROGAS
  • [CCS] VTI ROGAS
  • [GEM] VTI ROGAS
  • [LECA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GFBM] VTI ROGAS
  • [CFBQ] VTI ROGAS
  • [QFM] ANTIQVO
  • [CFD] VTI ROGAS.
  • [TGP] VTI ROGAS
  • [AMA] VTI ROGAS
  • [MMPH] VTI ROGAS
  • [MIP] ABSTINEO
  • [DIPI] ANTIQVO
  • [LMS] VTI ROGAS.
  • [MMA] VTI ROGAS.
  • [PMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MOG] VTI ROGAS
  • [TOPA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GPL] VTI ROGAS
  • [GSA] ABSTINEO
  • [JSM] VTI ROGAS.
  • [LSA] VTI ROGAS
  • [QSP] VTI ROGAS
  • [ATMC] VTI ROGAS.

Results of Item IV: Uti Rogas, 22; Antiquo, 2; Abstineo, 3. NOT PASSED Amendments required 2/3 Senate to ratify

ITEM V: PROPOSED AMENDMENT II II 'Citizens and Gentes" Section B

  • [FAC] ABSTINEO
  • [LAF] VTI ROGAS. Vox Populi, Vox Dei
  • [MBA] VTI ROGAS
  • [ECF] VTI ROGAS
  • [CCS] VTI ROGAS
  • [GEM] VTI ROGAS
  • [LECA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GFBM] VTI ROGAS
  • [CFBQ] VTI ROGAS
  • [QFM] ANTIQVO
  • [CFD] ANTIQVO
  • [TGP] VTI ROGAS
  • [AMA] VTI ROGAS
  • [MMPH] VTI ROGAS
  • [MIP] ABSTINEO
  • [DIPI] ANTIQVO
  • [LMS] VTI ROGAS.
  • [MMA] VTI ROGAS.
  • [PMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MOG] VTI ROGAS
  • [TOPA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GPL] VTI ROGAS
  • [GSA] ABSTINEO
  • [JSM] VTI ROGAS.
  • [LSA] VTI ROGAS
  • [QSP] VTI ROGAS
  • [ATMC] ANTIQVO

Results of Item V: Uti Rogas, 20; Antiquo, 4; Abstineo, 3.NOT PASSED Amendments required 2/3 Senate to ratify

Item VI: PROPOSED AMENDMENT III

  • [FAC] ABSTINEO
  • [LAF] VTI ROGAS. Vox Populi, Vox Dei
  • [MBA] VTI ROGAS
  • [ECF] VTI ROGAS
  • [CCS] VTI ROGAS
  • [GEM] VTI ROGAS
  • [LECA] ANTIQVO
  • [GFBM] VTI ROGAS
  • [CFBQ] VTI ROGAS
  • [QFM] ANTIQVO
  • [CFD] VTI ROGAS.
  • [TGP] VTI ROGAS
  • [AMA] ANTIQVO
  • [MMPH] ANTIQVO: Antiquo: While I agree with the proposed Constitutional

Amendment II that distinguishes between the right of provocatio and a new right of apellatio, and that establishes which Comitia shall act as appellate bodies under the circumstances stated in the proposal, as a former Tribunus Plebis I can not in good conscious agree to the proposed Amendment III in that it goes on to reduce the judicial authority of our respective Comitia to being only appellate courts. I do not find such a limitation of the Comitia justified by the wording of the proposed Amendment II or to be warranted by current circumstance.

  • [MIP] ABSTINEO
  • [DIPI] ANTIQVO
  • [LMS] VTI ROGAS.
  • [MMA] VTI ROGAS.
  • [PMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MOG] VTI ROGAS
  • [TOPA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GPL] ANTIQVO
  • [GSA] ABSTINEO
  • [JSM] VTI ROGAS.
  • [LSA] VTI ROGAS
  • [QSP] VTI ROGAS
  • [ATMC] VTI ROGAS.


Results of Item VI: Uti Rogas, 18; Antiquo, 6 ; Abstineo, 3. NOT PASSED Amendments required 2/3 Senate to ratify

Item VII: PROPOSED AMENDMENT IV IV Magistrates 1. 'Censor'

  • [FAC] NO VOTE
  • [LAF] VTI ROGAS. Vox Populi, Vox Dei
  • [MBA] ANTIQVO: I agree with M. Octavius Gracchus on this one
  • [ECF] VTI ROGAS
  • [CCS] VTI ROGAS
  • [GEM] VTI ROGAS
  • [LECA] ANTIQVO
  • [GFBM] VTI ROGAS
  • [CFBQ] VTI ROGAS
  • [QFM] NO VOTE
  • [CFD] VTI ROGAS.
  • [TGP] ANTIQVO
  • [AMA] VTI ROGAS
  • [MMPH] VTI ROGAS
  • [MIP] ABSTINEO
  • [DIPI] ANTIQVO
  • [LMS] VTI ROGAS.
  • [MMA] VTI ROGAS.
  • [PMS] VTI ROGAS
  • [MOG] ANTIQVO: Villains should be allowed to run for office and be rejected by

the people; this is an effective control on rogue Censors. (But we must also ensure there is an effective way of voting "NO" against a candidate running unopposed).

  • [TOPA] VTI ROGAS
  • [GPL] ANTIQVO
  • [GSA] ABSTINEO

[*JSM] ANTIQVO

  • [LSA] VTI ROGAS: I don't think the people's votes are sufficient safeguard

against the election of a "villain." Villains are often effective demagogues.

  • [QSP] VTI ROGAS
  • [ATMC] VTI ROGAS.

Results of Item VII: Uti Rogas, 16; Antiquo, 7; Abstineo, 2. Two senators did not voted NOT PASSED amendments required 2/3 Senate to ratify


Valete


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