Tiberius Galerius Paulinus at 14:27, 10 August 2008

2008-08-10T14:27:11Z

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{{Senate Session|Jul|18|2001}} Senatvs Consvlta Senate Voting Results 18 Quinctilis MMDCCLIV as published by tribune Titus Labienus Fortunatus Tribunus Plebis ...

2008-08-10T14:14:43Z

New page: <div class="scriptum"> {{Senate Session|Jul|18|2001}} Senatvs Consvlta Senate Voting Results 18 Quinctilis MMDCCLIV as published by tribune Titus Labienus Fortunatus Tribunus Plebis ...

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{{Senate Session|Jul|18|2001}}

Senatvs Consvlta
Senate Voting Results
18 Quinctilis MMDCCLIV
as published by tribune Titus Labienus Fortunatus

Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD

The Senate has finished its latest session, and the votes have been tallied.
Once again, I ask each Senator who voted to make sure that I have correctly
reported his or her vote and any comments he or she may have made.

The following fourteen Senatores cast votes. They are referred to below by
their initials.

PC: Patricia Cassia

MJC: Marcus Cassius Julianus

LCSF: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

LEC: Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

QFM: Quintus Fabius Maximus

AGG: Antonius Gryllus Graecus

AICPM: Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonius

DIPI: Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
MII Marcus Iunius Iulianus

TLF: Titus Labienus Fortunatus
MMA Marcus Minucius Audens
MOG: Marcus Octavius Germanicus

LSAO: Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
(FVG) Flavius Vedius Germanicus

The following four Senatores did not vote.
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Gaius Marius Merullus
Gaius Tullius Triumphius Cicero

The results of the vote follow, along with the individual votes cast by each
Senator. For those unfamiliar with the Latin terms, "UTI ROGAS" means a vote
in favor, "ANTIQUO" or "NEGAT" mean a vote against, and "ABSTINEO" is an
abstention.
__________________

ITEM I. INCLUSION OF ICELAND IN THULE PROVINCIA
**PASSED 14 For, 0 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS

MJC: UTI ROGAS

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS A logical inclusion. Rome would have done the same.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS Marcus Audens casts a YES vote for this item in support of
the ProPraetor of the Provincia Thule. ProPraetor Quintillianus is a careful
and precise administrator, and his recommendation in this case makes a great
deal of sense. I applaud his bringing this item to the Senate's attention.
MOG: UTI ROGAS

LSAO: UTI ROGAS
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM II. DIPLOMATIC RECOGNITION OF THE KINGDOM OF NUMIDIA
**DEFEATED 4 For, 10 Against

PC: ANTIQUO I will not be voting for such recognition and alliances until
we have concrete standards for determining their validity and value to Nova
Roma.

MJC: ANTIQUO Numidia, while enthusiastic, does not seem to be a viable
sovereignty project. While I encourage friendly relations with all
micronations, official association in this case does not seem favorable for us.

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

LEC: ANTIQUO

QFM: UTI ROGAS I was the first Consul that Jubal IV contacted. I helped
him with his military knowledge of the Numidians. Juba is learning more about
Numidia, and he plans to use us (Nova Roma) as a model to set up his kingdom.
Even if he never grows past the planning stage, still we should encourage such
projects, since they add to the general knowledge of the Mediterranean Basin
during the period of Rome.

AGG: ANTIQUO

AICPM: ANTIQUO

DIPI: ANTIQUO Numidia does not meet the required level of a serious
sovereignty project for us to open relations with them now.
MII ANTIQUO

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA ANTIQUO Marcus Audens casts a NO vote for this item because in
reviewing the material available, it does not appear to me that there would be
any mutual advantage to such a recognition at this time. I make mention of the
possible extention of an effort to make contact on a Sodalitas Level in order
to better have an idea about the citizens of Numidia. To that end, I would
offer services of the Sodalitas Militarium as a beginning to share our cultural
and military histories and a Mutual sharing of ideals and future goals for both
our micronations.
MOG: UTI ROGAS

LSAO: NEGAT I am of two minds on this. Numidia is similar, in some ways, to
what we began with, but it does not yet have the breadth and depth of what Nova
Roma has become. I think this step should be reconsidered if and when Numidia
has developed into a larger and more active entity.
(FVG) ANTIQUO

ITEM III. OFFICIAL CHARTERING OF THE SODALITAS MUNERUM
**PASSED 14 For, 0 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS I am sure the organizing parties, being responsible
Citizens, will do what needs to be done to protect the safety of participants
and the liability of Nova Roma.

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

MJC: UTI ROGAS I believe this Sodalitas will be a great benefit to Nova
Roma, particularly in drawing interest from the public at gatherings and
events.

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS Gladiators and Muneas seem to be the one thing that common
public finds fascinating about Rome. We would be amiss to not take advantage
of this avenue for publicity. I myself have just finished a 14,000 word
article on the Gladiator's history in Rome, so it is a subject near and dear to
my heart.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS
MOG: UTI ROGAS

LSAO: UTI ROGAS
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM IV. APPOINTMENT OF GOVERNOR FOR PROVINCIA HISPANIA
**PASSED 14 For, 0 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS

MJC: UTI ROGAS I believe M. Salix Vigilius will do the job well and be a
credit to the Provincia.

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS M. Salix Vigilius has shown interest in Nova Roma since the
day he joined. If he maintains this level of interest he will do the job, and
keep the peace in Hispania. My spiritual ancestor agrees.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS
MOG: UTI ROGAS

LSAO: UTI ROGAS
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM V. APPOINTMENT OF GOVERNOR FOR AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS
**PASSED 14 For, 0 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS

MJC: UTI ROGAS I am sure that Drusus will do an excellent job. I have been
impressed by his ideas on a number of occasions, and it is obvious he has both
the skill and energy to work on behalf of the Provincia.

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS Though I'm sorrowful of Iuncundia stepping down, Lucius
Sinicus Drusus is the person to succeeded her. He understands Roman history,
he has ideas we have not considered yet, his location more central to the
province and most of all he has personal finances that will help organize the
province. Minervia Iuncundia lacked that resource.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS
MOG: UTI ROGAS! L. Sicinus is a capable and intelligent citizen, and he
deserves this position.

LSAO: UTI ROGAS
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM VI. ALLOCATION OF DISCRETIONARY FUNDS
**PASSED 12 For, 2 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS Assuming these funds are approved, I hope to get them,
together with other contributions from Citizens, to the Vindolanda Trust by
Aug. 1. Those who wish to add to this amount may do so by visiting
http: //www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/vindolanda/ as soon as possible.

LCSF: ANTIQUO

MJC: UTI ROGAS I also agree that it is important that Nova Roma get
positive public exposure from this charity fund - somthing we must keep an eye
toward with all such involvements. We should not spend public money without it
also having a benefit to Nova Roma. Happily I believe this will happen in this
case... there will be information on our website, and also mention of the
project elsewhere.

LEC: UTI ROGAS Should we be given assurance that Nova Roma will be given
credit for it's financial and advertisement contributions, I support this
Allocation of Funds. Otherwise send only those monies that were contributed
voluntarily.

QFM: ANTIQUO While what befall Vindolanda was unfortunate, the use of Nova
Roma monies with no clear benefit to Nova Roma should be voted against. If we
were presenting a check for 10k with the media looking on, that would be
something. This is not. Two hundred American will keep them operating for 8
hours. I do not believe a single member of the dig are citizens. This is just
an attempt to sell the dues idea to the citizens so when they ask: "What is
Nova Roma doing with our money?" we can show them this one donation.
Understand Conscript Fathers, I am not against the principle of giving money to
sites to further the study of Rome. After all this is one of the reasons NR
was founded. But until we have dues in place and the collections are actually
happening, we should not be spending Nova Roma's meager resources.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS While it is a large expenditure out of our current treasury,
it is a worthwhile both because of what the money will be used for and for the
attention it will bring to Nova Roma.
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS Marcus Audens casts a YES vote for this item, as it falls
entirely in line with one of the major reasons that Nova Roma was formed. I
have been privileged to visit Vindolanda, and was most impressed with what I
saw there and with what was planned for that site. I have visited every
museum, and major archaelogical site along Hadrian's Wall, and have walked on
the wall and alongside it for long stretches to get a feel for the structure.
My personal feeling is that there could not be a better place to donate our
hard-won funds than to Vindolanda at this time.
MOG: UTI ROGAS This is exactly the sort of thing we should be doing, to
enhance our reputation in the community.

LSAO: UTI ROGAS
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM VII. SENATUS CONSULTUM ON DEFINING A QUORUM
**PASSED 14 For, 0 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS

MJC: UTI ROGAS

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS This was discussed last year. I'm glad to see it completed.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS
MOG: UTI ROGAS

LSAO: UTI ROGAS
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM VIII. TAXATION
**PASSED 10 For, 4 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS As this will require changes to our accounting procedures, I
encourage the Consuls to appoint a committee immediately on passage of this
item to do the work of making this system operate smoothly.

MJC: UTI ROGAS! I will be thrilled to see Nova Roma gain some dependable
real world resources at last.

LCSF: ANTIQUO

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: ANTIQUO Yes, Quintus Fabius Maximus the largest single proponent of
taxes in Nova Roma is voting against this item. Why? Because Conscript
Fathers, it needs to be reworded and certain provisions added. Right now, the
first time we have a problem, we will have to revisit this. And rewrite it.
Why not take care of it correctly the first time?

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: ANTIQUO This is the toughest item to vote on. While the idea of
taxation is a good one and a necessary one, the specifc proposal is deeply
flawed. There are real economic differences between the various countries and
this ignores those differences. While $12 is little to Americans or most
Western Europeans (though many Western Europeans might disagree considering how
little their governments leave them after stealing most of their money through
excessive taxation) it is a lot to people in poorer nations, especially Eastern
Europe. In relative terms of the impact it will have on those people it is
somewhat equivalent to the tax being several hundred dollars to Americans, an
amount that few Americans even in the senate would be willing to pay. An
alternate, workable suggestion made by some people was to start with a lower
amount, about half this number. Far more people would pay that lower tax and
thus the overall amount rasied would be greater. I think that the estimate I
have seen that a third of our current populace will be willing to pay this tax
is optimistic and think we will be lucky to get 20-25% of the populace to pay
the tax. Despite all this, I am tempted to vote for the item--because we
desperately need a tax system--and then hope for a more equitable solution
later but fear that would not happen, so I must vote no.
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS Though I would have preferred to include some sort of
mechanism that recognized the vast discrepancies between the economies of some
of our provinciae (or rather the macronations that contain/are contained within
them), the measure is otherwise a good one.
MMA UTI ROGAS Marcus Audens casts a YES vote for this item because the
basic proposal is a good one. However, I agree with my colleagues who have
sounded a warning that some provision should be made in this taxation package
for the inequality between various nation's economies. As has been said
before, that point has been discussed at length with good arguments on both
sides, and is one of the most difficult aspects of this item to reach
concurrence upon.
MOG: NEGAT!

LSAO: UTI ROGAS I would have preferred to start at a lower rate such as US$6
per annum, but better US$12 per annum than to go on debating it without doing
it!
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM IX. DISPOSITION OF TAXES TO PROVINCIA
**PASSED 10 For, 3 Against

MJC: UTI ROGAS However, it is my hope that we will need a minimum of people
to collect taxes, and that most payments will be done directly online. That
will eliminate a great deal of time, effort and paperwork.

LCSF: ANTIQUO

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS No matter what happens with the tax leges the information
will have to be kept. I would have prefered the Ides of Martius. Ides are
Aprlus have a great many things happening in the days between the Kal. &
Ides

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: ANTIQUO This puts too much of a strict limit on where funds are to be
directed. I am all in favor of money being directed to the provinces but don't
think we should be limited as to what percentage that should be. The amount
sent to a province should be based on the specific needs of a province at that
time.
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS
MOG: UTI ROGAS

LSAO: NEGAT I would prefer to consider this more before finalizing it. Will
collecting money from the provinces and then sending part of it back when
needed there cost us extra charges for transfers? Are we saying that we will
not trust our provincial officials because of a revolt that occurred in one
province? This proposal does not "feel right" to me. It needs more
consideration.
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM X. CREATION OF PROVINCIA MOESIA-DACIA
**DEFEATED 3 For, 11 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS

MJC: ANTIQUO for the present. I personally have not seen enough evidence
of a need for this, or enough commonality among the modern nations proposed. If
more information is brought forth at a later date I would be happy to consider
it again.

LCSF: ANTIQUO

LEC: ANTIQUO

QFM: ANTIQUO Since many of the modern nations contained in this proposed
province detest one another this would be a big mistake. Unlike the Roman
period these varius Tribus have now their own identities, and lumping them all
together will not work.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: ANTIQUO

DIPI: ANTIQUO This does not take into account the modern sensibilities of
people living in those provinces.
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: ANTIQUO Considering the historic animosity between the region's
various ethnic groups, I am hesitant to lump these cives together in one
provincia without knowing their opinions on the matter.
MMA ANTIQUO Marcus Audens casts a NO vote for this item based on the lack
of detailed information regarding such a specific area, nationality, language
and other cultural differences.
MOG: NEGAT Too many countries and languages in one province.

LSAO: NEGAT To lump potential citizens of multiple Balkan nations together
into one province at this point seems unwise. The conflicts between states in
that area are legendary and ongoing. I would like to see citizens in these
areas working together and asking to become a province before we vote such into
existence.
(FVG) ANTIQUO

ITEM XI. CREATION OF PROVINCIA VENEDIA
*I. The province of Venedia is hereby created, consisting of the modern nation
of Poland.
**PASSED 14 For, 0 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS

MJC: UTI ROGAS

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS
MOG: UTI ROGAS

LSAO: UTI ROGAS
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

*II. The province of Venedia is hereby created, consisting of the modern
nations of Poland and the Czech Republic.
**DEFEATED 0 For, 14 Against

PC: ANTIQUO

MJC: ANTIQUO

LCSF: ANTIQUO

LEC: ANTIQUO

QFM: ANTIQUO Again, Since the modern nations contained in this proposed
province detest one another this would not be a good idea.

AGG: ANTIQUO

AICPM: ANTIQUO

DIPI: ANTIQUO
MII ANTIQUO

TLF: ANTIQUO
MMA ANTIQUO Marcus Audens casts a NO vote for this item based upon the
lack of detailed information regarding such a specific area, nationality,
language and other cultural differences.
MOG: NEGAT

LSAO: NEGAT I have not seen any requests from residents of the Czech
Republic asking to be included in a province with Polish cives.
(FVG) ANTIQUO

ITEM XII. OFFICIAL SPONSORSHIP OF LEGIO SECUNDA AUGUSTA
**PASSED 14 For, 0 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS They sound like a delightful group. May they grow and
prosper!

MJC: UTI ROGAS I'm pleased to see this new legion forming!

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS The Second can trace it's roots back to Iulius Caesar's
consular army's lego. Good to see this lego finally honored.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS
MOG: UTI ROGAS

LSAO: UTI ROGAS Ave Kiwis!!!
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM XIII: EXPANSION OF SCOPE OF SODALITAS MILITARIUM
**PASSED 13 For, 0 Against

PC: UTI ROGAS

MJC: UTI ROGAS The Sodalitas Militarium has been an absolute gem of a
program, and a great benefit to Nova Roma. The Citizens involved have proven
themselves to be knowledgable, and active, and I will be pleased to see their
function expanded. (Proof to the rumor that the reward for good work is *more*
work...)

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

LEC: UTI ROGAS

QFM: UTI ROGAS One of our few well functioning Sodalitas. I'm sure Marcus
Minucius' leadership has something to do with this.

AGG: UTI ROGAS

AICPM: UTI ROGAS

DIPI: UTI ROGAS
MII UTI ROGAS

TLF: UTI ROGAS
MMA UTI ROGAS
MOG: UTI ROGAS
(FVG) UTI ROGAS

ITEM XIV: OFFICIAL CHARTERING OF THE SODALITAS IUDEICA
**DEFEATED 1 For, 10 Against, 3 Abstentions

PC: ANTIQUO While I entirely support the study of the Jewish religion and
Judaic history during the Roman era, this proposal is too broad, and as some
have remarked, seems more appropriate to organizing a Provincia than a study
group. I encourage Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix to consider whether it can be
more accurately focused on the Roman era and on study and learning, and to
resubmit this proposal after appropriate alterations.

LCSF: UTI ROGAS

MJC: ANTIQUO I believe this proposal should be better defined so that it
has a Roman focus. As Nova Roma is about "things Roman", we should keep
Provincial studies "on topic" whenever possible.

LEC: ANTIQUO

QFM: ANTIQUO The college had reservations about this club. And until these
are resolved, I suggest we table this item for a later date

AGG: ABSTINEO

AICPM: ANTIQUO

DIPI: ABSTINEO I must defer to the wishes of the Pontifex Maximus on this
issue and believe the differences regarding this propsal should be worked out
in a different venue.
MII ANTIQUO

TLF: ANTIQUO
MMA ANTIQUO Marcus Audens casts a NO vote for this item solely in support
of the wishes of the Collegium Pontificum as related to the Nova Roma Senate by
the Pontifex Maximus Cassius Julianus.
MOG: NEGAT

LSAO: ABSTINEO In deference to the concerns and authority of the College of
Pontiffs and of the Pontifex Maximus.
(FVG) ANTIQUO In accordance with the wishes of the Collegium Pontificum, as
related by our Pontifex Maximus, I vote antiquo (no) to item XIV, "Official
Chartering of the Sodalitas Iudeica", to allow time for the proposal to be
reviewed and resubmitted.
_________________

Valete

a d XV Sex MMDCCLIV

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Session XXIX 18 July 2754 - Revision history

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus at 14:27, 10 August 2008

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: New page: {{Senate Session|Jul|18|2001}} Senatvs Consvlta Senate Voting Results 18 Quinctilis MMDCCLIV as published by tribune Titus Labienus Fortunatus Tribunus Plebis ...

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: New page:
{{Senate Session|Jul|18|2001}} Senatvs Consvlta Senate Voting Results 18 Quinctilis MMDCCLIV as published by tribune Titus Labienus Fortunatus Tribunus Plebis ...