Session LXXXIII 24 April 2760 - Revision history

Publius Memmius Albucius at 15:45, 16 January 2010

2010-01-16T15:45:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:45, 16 January 2010
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	Galerius Paulinus :		Galerius Paulinus :

−	Item I The US State of Nevada is separated in to its own province.	+	Item I - The US State of Nevada is separated in to its own province.

	The new province shall be called Nivosa		The new province shall be called Nivosa

−	Item II Appointment of a Propraetor of California ( CA and HI)	+	Item II - Appointment of a Propraetor of California ( CA and HI)

	Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California		Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California

−	Item III	+	Item III - L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California

−	~~L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor~~ of ~~California~~	+	Item IV - The Province of Mediatlantica will consist of the following
		+	US States: Maryland, Delaware, Washington DC, Virginia + Province of Nova Eborica will consist of
		+	New York State + Province of Pennsylvania will consist of the US Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

−	~~Item IV~~
−
−	~~The Province of Mediatlantica is reconfigured as follows~~
−
−	~~Province of Mediatlantica will consist of the following~~
−	~~US States~~
−
−	~~Maryland~~
−	~~Delaware~~
−	~~Washington, DC~~
−	~~Virginia~~
−
−	~~Province of Nova Eborica will consist of~~
−	~~New York State~~
−
−	~~Province of Pennsylvania~~
−	~~will consist of the US Commonwealth of Pennsylvania~~

	Item IV Discussion		Item IV Discussion
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	Failure to pay the Annual Senatorial fee shall result in ___________________		Failure to pay the Annual Senatorial fee shall result in ___________________
	After the discussion in the Senate of the Agenda proposed by the Consul Paulinus		After the discussion in the Senate of the Agenda proposed by the Consul Paulinus
−	the items I and IV were withdrawn, the Consul is of the opinion that "we need to	+	'''the items I and IV were withdrawn''', the Consul is of the opinion that "we need to
	reduce the size of our administrative areas to the size of a city but it is not		reduce the size of our administrative areas to the size of a city but it is not
	an issue that can not wait further consultations".		an issue that can not wait further consultations".

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus at 04:38, 15 August 2008

2008-08-15T04:38:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:38, 15 August 2008
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		+	{{Senate Session\|Apr\|24\|2007}}
		+
	24 April 2760		24 April 2760

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−		+	</div>
−	~~[[Category:MMDCCLX]]~~	+

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus at 07:13, 7 August 2008

2008-08-07T07:13:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:13, 7 August 2008
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	Failure to pay the Annual Senatorial fee shall result in ___________________		Failure to pay the Annual Senatorial fee shall result in ___________________
−	~~================================================================================\~~
−	~~=================~~
	After the discussion in the Senate of the Agenda proposed by the Consul Paulinus		After the discussion in the Senate of the Agenda proposed by the Consul Paulinus
	the items I and IV were withdrawn, the Consul is of the opinion that "we need to		the items I and IV were withdrawn, the Consul is of the opinion that "we need to
Line 76:		Line 74:
	Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California		Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California
	L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California		L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California
−	~~================================================================================\~~
−	~~=================~~

	The Senate was call to vote with the following message of Consul:		The Senate was call to vote with the following message of Consul:
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	The session was closed at the 11,59 PM Central European Summer Time (5:59pm EST)		The session was closed at the 11,59 PM Central European Summer Time (5:59pm EST)
−	~~================================================================================\~~	+
−	~~==================~~	+

	Here is the list of the voting Senators:		Here is the list of the voting Senators:
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	it at that. I request that the Tribunes include my full statement on Marcus		it at that. I request that the Tribunes include my full statement on Marcus
	Martianus Gangalius as part of their Senate report.		Martianus Gangalius as part of their Senate report.
−
	*GEM: Uti Rogas		*GEM: Uti Rogas
	*GPL: I vote Abstineo on both items. REVISED VOTE: LAENAS: Quintus Suetonius		*GPL: I vote Abstineo on both items. REVISED VOTE: LAENAS: Quintus Suetonius
Line 394:		Line 388:
	Roma;		Roma;
	*MIP: Abstineo		*MIP: Abstineo
−
−
−

	RESULTS OF ITEM II:		RESULTS OF ITEM II:

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: New page: 24 April 2760 M. Curiatius Complutensis Tribunus Plebis omnes civibus Novae Romae SPD SENATE VOTING RESULTS The Senate was called to discuss the following proposed Agenda by the Consul ...

2008-08-07T07:11:59Z

New page: 24 April 2760 M. Curiatius Complutensis Tribunus Plebis omnes civibus Novae Romae SPD SENATE VOTING RESULTS The Senate was called to discuss the following proposed Agenda by the Consul ...

New page

24 April 2760

M. Curiatius Complutensis Tribunus Plebis omnes civibus Novae Romae SPD

SENATE VOTING RESULTS

The Senate was called to discuss the following proposed Agenda by the Consul
Galerius Paulinus :

Item I The US State of Nevada is separated in to its own province.

The new province shall be called Nivosa

Item II Appointment of a Propraetor of California ( CA and HI)

Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California

Item III

L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California

Item IV

The Province of Mediatlantica is reconfigured as follows

Province of Mediatlantica will consist of the following
US States

Maryland
Delaware
Washington, DC
Virginia

Province of Nova Eborica will consist of
New York State

Province of Pennsylvania
will consist of the US Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

Item IV Discussion

Senator Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus has made a suggestion that I believe has
merit and one I support. That of making the election officials appointed and not
elected.

Question:

Does the Senate believe that the it would be advisable to have the diribitors'
and the custodes as appointed officers instead of as elected officials.

The idea is to have them nominated by the Consuls for staggered terms of two
years, approved by the Senate and under the supervision of the Censores.

Item Annual Senatorial fee

The Senate being the supreme policy-making authority for Nova Roma and serving
as the repository of experience and wisdom in the affairs of State, the Senate
sets an annual fee on the members of the Senate in the amount of _______. We do
this to set the example for other Nova Romans to follow and to insure a minimum
income for the state. The Senatorial fee is on top of any taxes imposed on all
citizens or paid by a member of the Senate..

Failure to pay the Annual Senatorial fee shall result in ___________________
================================================================================\
=================
After the discussion in the Senate of the Agenda proposed by the Consul Paulinus
the items I and IV were withdrawn, the Consul is of the opinion that "we need to
reduce the size of our administrative areas to the size of a city but it is not
an issue that can not wait further consultations".

Therefore only two items remain for a vote:

Item II Appointment of a Praetor of California
Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California

Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California
L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California
================================================================================\
=================

The Senate was call to vote with the following message of Consul:
"I am convening the Senate on a.d. VIII Kal. Mai (April 24 2760 AU.C) when the
contio will commence until a.d. IV Kal. Mai. ( April 28, 2760 A.U.C.) when it
will end. Voting will then commence and will end on pr. Kal. Mai. (April 30,
2760 A.U.C) . Once debate has concluded Senators will send their votes to the
Senate list where the results will be tabulated and the Tribunes will report the
results to the people of Nova Roma in accordance with our laws and customs. I
will post an agenda after my colleague has had some time to weigh in on the
draft."

The session was closed at the 11,59 PM Central European Summer Time (5:59pm EST)
================================================================================\
==================

Here is the list of the voting Senators:

*TGP:Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
*GEM: Gn. Equitius Marinus
*GPL: G. Popilius Laenas
*PMS: Pompeia Minucia Strabo
*GFBM: Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
*TOPA: Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
*MOG: Marcus Octavius Gracchus
*CFBQ: Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus
*QSP:Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
*CEC: C. Equitius Cato
*MMPH: M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus
*LAF: L. Arminius Faustus
*LECA: L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
*CFD: Caius Flavius Diocletianus
*CL: C. Livia
*QFM: Q. Fabius Maximus
*ATMC: Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
*ATS: A. Tullia Scholastica
*DIPI: Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
*MBA: Marcus Bianchius Antonius
*GSA: Gn Salvius Astur
*SAS: Sextus Apollonius Scipio
*CCS: C Curius Saturninus
*FAC: Fr Apulus Caesar
*JSM: Julilla Sempronia Magna
*MMA: M Minucius Audens
*MIP: M Iulius Perusianus

Item II Appointment of a Praetor of California Marcus Martianus Gangalius is
appointed Praetor of California

*TGP: Uti Rogas. I believe he is the better of our two candidates and will leave
it at that. I request that the Tribunes include my full statement on Marcus
Martianus Gangalius as part of their Senate report.

*GEM: Uti Rogas
*GPL: I vote Abstineo on both items. REVISED VOTE: LAENAS: Quintus Suetonius
Paulinus speaks my thoughts exactly. I also wish to revise my vote as follows:
Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California Laenas: VTI ROGAS
L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California Laenas: Antiquo
*PMS: antiquo
*GFBM: Antiquo. After looking through the archives of the Main List and
reading how Gangalius handled his objections to Gens reform I wonder
how much respect he has for authority, namely the authority of the
senate. As a provincial governor he works for the senate, I have my
doubts that he will follow the will of the senate, instead following
his own. He does indeed have an impressive resume, but within Nova
Roma I have no positive image of him only inflammatory rhetoric and
that is all I have in which to judge him. Additionally, I am
disturbed that on the Gens Martiana website there is a page were
people can "apply" to join Gens Martianus -- citizenship approvals is
the task of the censors. If his way of getting around Gens reform is
to have non-Nova Romans in his Gens then I wonder if he will be trying
to recruit for his Gens or whether he will focus on recruitment for
Nova Roma. I just noticed this minutes before I cast my vote so there
is not time to research it, if it comes to light that this is not the
case then I will stand corrected. But the Gens Martiana "Application"
page makes NO reference to Nova Roma.
*TOPA: Antiquo.
I have little reason to believe his demeanor has changed. California is
in need of positive leadership, which I believe not to be one of his
main attributes.
*MOG: UTI ROGAS.
*CFBQ: The text from the gens Martiana website made it easy to vote
ANTIQUO to Marcus Martianus Gangalius, especially as I think his arrogant
and disloyal behavior, that is clearly shown below, don't make him suited to lead any Nova Roman province.

At 20.12 -0400 07-04-28, David Kling (Modianus) wrote:
:Whereas Nova Roma's ever-growing list of onerous citizenship
:requirements has discouraged applicants to the gens Martiana from
:completing the citizenship process; and
:
:Whereas the gens Martiana was established in MMDCCLI ab urbe condita,
:anno Martis CCVII and was accepted by the Censors of Nova Roma, yet
:the Censors of Nova Roma now obstruct new citizens from joining the
:gens, effectively making the gens a closed one against its will and
:threatening its eventual extinction; and
:
:Whereas the current policy of the Censors of Nova Roma constitutes an
:ex post facto law to the disparagement of the principles of Roman
:justice, and violates the most basic human right, that of identity,
:such right being derived from jus naturale, which is recognized as a
:source of law in Roman jurisprudence;
:
:Therefore be it resolved that the gens Martiana, acting in the
:interest of its very survival as well as its liberty, declares said
:policy of the Censors of Nova Roma to be unjust and un-Roman, that the
:gens opens its membership to all people who profess any of the
:Mediterranean and European cultures that existed during the Republican
:and Imperial periods of classical Rome, and that no distinction shall
:be made among members of the gens as to their status in Nova Roma; and
:
:Resolved, that since the republic now discourages the growth of the
:gens Martiana, thus the gens is no longer obligated to encourage the
:growth of the republic, and indeed, the growth of the republic has
:become inimical to the interests of our gens and our constituent
:familiae, all mention of Nova Roma shall be removed from the Gens
:Martiana website.
*QSP: QSP Abstenio , REVISED VOTE: I first abstained on both candidates but I
have decided to revise my vote. Personally I would like to have had QFM stay on as Proconsul in California and I listed my reasons on a number of occasions. No provinces have grown in great leaps and bounds and starting with myself, I feel that stones should
not be thrown in a glass house. We shall soon see if changing out QFM will
resolve anything there.: Item II Appointment of a Praetor of California
: Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California: QSP: UTI ROGAS
Some of us have lost it on a few occasions, were ready to throw in the towel
or strangle the administration (figuratively speaking) but came back and
accomplished things with great vigour. The past is the past and now is what
will count in my opinion. : Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California
: L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California : QSP - ABSTENIO:
: I also hope he'll be appointed as a Legate and in time should be groomed to
run for Propraetor. Meanwhile availability and transport are critical for
this job.
*CEC: ANTIQUO
*MMPH: Negas. I have no objection against candidatus Martianus; I simply
prefer that the other candidatus be given an opportunity for the
current year.
*LAF: Antiqvo. I have nothing against him. But I must state my
preference of Bassus because I can testimony his capacity of work.
*LECA: VTI ROGAS
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=173
I don't believe that anything I would say on Marcus' behalf would change the
minds of those who oppose him. I will say that while many have quit for far
lesser reason than he had to leave he stayed and has offered himself again for
service. He has given us a very impressive resume and taken time to debate and
defend himself in the Forum. I have not seen anything from the other candidate.
I would have been pleased to see his resume. Also, I think that the Consules
should have given us more information as to the candidates age, length of
citizenship, service record during the contio. Does the other candidate still
wish to be appointed? Or perhaps he sees the wisdom in taking a Legate position
as a proper first step?
*CFD: VTI ROGAS
*CL: Antiquo.
*QFM: VTI ROGAS
I wasn't going to vote in protest about the shabby way I was treated after
spending the time, money and effort in keeping California viable. I was
especially saddened by the fact most Senators here are sheep, unable to do
nothing but follow the herd. Next time you want to know about me, ask me
directly, don't listen to people who are my avowed enemies.
That said, people who do know me voted me to stay, and I'll not soon forget
their kindness.

I have known Marcus Martianus Gangalius since I met him at Celebrate History in
1999. He is intelligent, grounded in history, a follower of the Religio, and has
independence. He is the obvious choice.
He also never quit Nova Roma when he could have, he backed the wrong side in the
Constitutional Wars and was censored for it. I only say that, because continuity
is an important thing.

Yes, he was disappointed when his Gens was broken up. Who wouldn't be? But he
has taken no loyalty oath that says he has to accept all of NR's changes. Keep
that in mind when you read that proclamation. He is loyal to Rome unlike
loudmouthed Senators here would like you to believe. Otherwise he would not have
stepped forward when asked to do so.
*ATMC: ANTIQUO.
*ATS: Neither candidate is a perfect choice, but I have very serious reservations
about this candidate in light of his behavior toward me and others as well as
with regard to items drawn from the website of what he refers to as HIS gens.
*ANTIQVO.
*DIPI: VTI ROGAS
*MBA: antiquo
*GSA: I vote against it. He does not seem to be cast off the right material to
me.
*SAS: ANTIQUO
*CCS: Antiquo.
*FAC: ABSTINEO
*JSM: ANTIQUO
*MMA: This vote is a difficult one to make between two candidates who have
different attributes for taking on the position.
Personally, I do not care for Gangalious, or his actions and writings, nor do I
particularly care for the great list of his qualifications. However those are
personal feelings, and as a Senator should have no aspect in my voting.
Candidate Bassus seems a sincre young man without many ways to deal with his
job, and California is not as easy to getaround in without personal
transportation as is Britannia. Many wh have never visited Califiornia do not
realize that. I too was disappointed that Senator Maximus was outed from this
position, and Itend to think his reasoning was sound n his arguments against it.
The current "discussion" over this partiular vote seems to support that view,
and who should know better than he, who was the ProConsul there for years?
However, I personally hope that Senasoor Maximus will assist Gangulous in his
duties, and if Bassus accepts a position as Legate, both of these aspects woud
gofar to relieve my anxieties in regard to this vote.
Item 1-- Gangulous for Preator of the Province of Calif.
*MMA--YES
Item 2--Bassus for Praetor of the Province of Calif.
*MMA--NO I make this vote without makice toward any, and hope sincerely that my
vote will see the provinc through the coming serious considerations of Nova
Roma;

*MIP: Abstineo

Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California L. Iunius Bassus is appointed
Praetor of California

*TGP: Antiquo I do wish that L. Iunius Bassus will be willing to serve an
apprenticeship under Marcus Martianus Gangalius and if he does we will have two
citizens eager to help California grow.
*GEM: Abstiene
*GPL: I vote Abstineo on both items. REVISED VOTE: LAENAS: Quintus Suetonius
Paulinus speaks my thoughts exactly. I also wish to revise my vote as follows:
Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California Laenas: VTI ROGAS
L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California Laenas: Antiquo
*PMS: vti rogas
*GFBM: Uti rogas. For the record I don't consider Bassus a "croney" as has
been insinuated by Consul Paulinus who seems to think a vote for
Bassus is a vote for "cronyism," and I resent the implication. I have
no idea whether this young man will be successful, but I'm willing to
give him a chance and if he doesn't prove successful we find another
option.
*TOPA: Uti rogas.
Though I don't know him personally, I will trust the recommendation of
several of my colleagues.
*MOG: ANTIQUO, without malice; I vote instead for Gangalius, and
thank L. Iunius Bassus for his willingness to serve.
*CFBQ: UTI ROGAS to L. Iunius Bassus as PROpraetor of California.
I will vote to give Provincia California a new governor. Bassus is
new as a a leader in Nova Roma and California and I am not sure that
he will be up to this task, but he wouldn't be the first citizen to
be given a fair chance to prove himself at this level. If he can do
it, fine and if not, the Senate will have to look for a new one next
year. But I will NOT vote to replace the old arrogant and incompetent
governor with a new one that is as arrogant and disloyal and who
hasn't proven himself either.
*QSP Abstenio . REVISED VOTE: I first abstained on both candidates but I have
decided to revise my vote.
Personally I would like to have had QFM stay on as Proconsul in California
and I listed my reasons on a number of occasions. No provinces have grown in
great leaps and bounds and starting with myself, I feel that stones should
not be thrown in a glass house. We shall soon see if changing out QFM will
resolve anything there.: Item II Appointment of a Praetor of California
: Marcus Martianus Gangalius is appointed Praetor of California: QSP: UTI ROGAS
Some of us have lost it on a few occasions, were ready to throw in the towel
or strangle the administration (figuratively speaking) but came back and
accomplished things with great vigour. The past is the past and now is what
will count in my opinion. : Item III Appointment of a Praetor of California
: L. Iunius Bassus is appointed Praetor of California : QSP - ABSTENIO:
: I also hope he'll be appointed as a Legate and in time should be groomed to
run for Propraetor. Meanwhile availability and transport are critical for
this job.

*CEC: UTI ROGAS
I particularly like this bit from the resolution on the gens Martiana
website:

"since the republic now discourages the growth of the gens Martiana,
thus the gens is no longer obligated to encourage the growth of the
republic, and indeed, the growth of the republic has become inimical
to the interests of our gens and our constituent familiae, all mention
of Nova Roma shall be removed from the Gens Martiana website."

I would be more impressed if he had figured out a way of not
mentioning the proper name of the Republic at all throughout, as
otherwise the resolution violates itself. When I was a boy, talk like
this would have seen him setting up a little house on some bleak
promontory overlooking the Black Sea.
*MMPH: Uti Rogas.
*LAF: UT ROGAS. I have much confidence on Bassus capacities.
*LECA: Antiquo
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=10303
I'm pleased that we have a choice, but I believe that Bassus should begin as a
Legate as has been suggested, a fine idea.
*CFD: Antiquo
*CL: Uti rogas.
As a side note - considering that the only point which has been raised in
criticism against L. Iunius Bassus is that he is a student without his own
transportation - that was true of me when I took on the governorship of
Britannia, so it is not impossible!
*QFM: Antiquo
*ATMC: VTI ROGAS.
*ATS: VTI ROGAS.
*DIPI: Antiquo
*MBA: Uti Rogas
*GSA: I vote in favour.
*SAS: UTI ROGAS
However I hope they will be able to work together in good spirit.
*CCS: Uti rogas.
*FAC: ABSTINEO. I don't know this gentlemen.
*JSM: UTI ROGAS

*MMA: This vote is a difficult one to make between two candidates who have
different attributes for taking on the position.
Personally, I do not care for Gangalious, or his actions and writings, nor do I
particularly care for the great list of his qualifications. However those are
personal feelings, and as a Senator should have no aspect in my voting.
Candidate Bassus seems a sincre young man without many ways to deal with his
job, and California is not as easy to getaround in without personal
transportation as is Britannia. Many wh have never visited Califiornia do not
realize that. I too was disappointed that Senator Maximus was outed from this
position, and Itend to think his reasoning was sound n his arguments against it.
The current "discussion" over this partiular vote seems to support that view,
and who should know better than he, who was the ProConsul there for years?
However, I personally hope that Senasoor Maximus will assist Gangulous in his
duties, and if Bassus accepts a position as Legate, both of these aspects woud
gofar to relieve my anxieties in regard to this vote.
Item 1-- Gangulous for Preator of the Province of Calif.
--MMA--YES
Item 2--Bassus for Praetor of the Province of Calif.
--MMA--NO I make this vote without makice toward any, and hope sincerely that my
vote will see the provinc through the coming serious considerations of Nova
Roma;
*MIP: Abstineo

RESULTS OF ITEM II:

VTI ROGAS: 10
ANTIQVO: 15
ABSTINEO: 2

NOT PASSED

RESULTS OF ITEM III:

VTI ROGAS: 15
ANTIQVO: 8
ABSTINEO: 4

PASSED

The Senate appoints L. Iunius Bassus as Praetor of Provincia Californiae.

Optime Valete

M·CVRIATIVS·COMPLVTENSIS
TRIBVNVS PLEBIS
PROPRAETOR HISPANIAE
SCRIBA CENSORIS GFBM
NOVA ROMA
-------------------------------------------
ex paucis multa, ex minimis maxima

[[Category:MMDCCLX]]