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Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: New page: M Moravius Piscinus, Tribunus Plebis, Popularibus Romani, Quiritibus salutem plurinam dicit: Senate Voting Results, A. U. C. ante diem VII Idus Sextilas MMDCCLIX (7 August 2006 CE). The ...

2008-08-03T20:56:19Z

New page: M Moravius Piscinus, Tribunus Plebis, Popularibus Romani, Quiritibus salutem plurinam dicit: Senate Voting Results, A. U. C. ante diem VII Idus Sextilas MMDCCLIX (7 August 2006 CE). The ...

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M Moravius Piscinus, Tribunus Plebis, Popularibus Romani, Quiritibus
salutem plurinam dicit:

Senate Voting Results, A. U. C. ante diem VII Idus Sextilas MMDCCLIX
(7 August 2006 CE).

The Senate was called into session by Consul G Fabius Buteo
Modianus. The contio was held from 30 July through 2 August on
agenda items previously reported by Tribunus Plebis Suetonius
Paulinus on 27 July. Voting then took place from 3 August until 6
August. Twenty-five of thirty-six Senators voted during the session,
one voted late, these being the following:

*[FAC] Franciscus Apulus Caesar
*[MBA] Marcus Bianchius Antonius
*[PC] Patricia Cassia
*[MCI] Marcus Cassius Iulianus
*[ECF] Emilia Curia Finnica
*[CCS] Caius Curius Saturninus
*[LECA] Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
*[GEM] Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
*[GFBM] Gaius Fabius Buteo Modianus
*[CFBQ] Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus [voted by proxy]
*[TGP] Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
*[MIP] Marcus Iulius Perusianus
*[DIPI] Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
*[TLF] Titus Labienus Fortunatus
*[LMS] Lucius Minicius Sceptius
*[PMS] Pompeia Minucia Strabo
*[MMA] Marcus Minucius Audens
*[AMA] Arnamentia Moravia Aurelia
*[MOG] Marcus Octavius Germanicus
*[TOPA] Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus
*[GPL] Gaius Popillius Laenas
*[JSM] Julilla Sempronia Magna [voted by proxy]
*[LSA] Lucius Sergius Australicus
*[QSP] Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
*[ATMC] Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato [Voted too late]
*[FVG] Flavius Vedius Germanicus

Senatores not voting during the Senate session were the following:

*[SAS] Sextus Apollonius Scipio
*[LAF] Lucius Arminius Faustus
*[MAM] Marcus Arminius Maior
*[MCS] Manius Constantinus Serapio
*[LCSF] Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
*[QFM] Quintus Fabius Maximus
*[GFD] Gaius Flavius Diocletianus
*[GL] Gaia Livia
*[GMM] Gaius Marius Merullus
*[GSA] Gnaeus Salvius Astur

ITEM I: The rules and procedures for debate and the taking of votes
in the Senate.

Voting:
Uti Rogas: 23
Antiquo: 0
Abstineo: 2
Total Votes: 25

Item I carried.

*[FAC] VTI ROGAS
*[LAF] UTI ROGAS.
*[MBA] Uti Rogas.
*[PC] Uti Rogas
*[MCI] Uti Rogas
*[ECF] Uti rogas.
*[CCS] Uti Rogas.
*[LECA] Vti Rogas.
*[GEM] Uti Rogas.
*[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
*[CFBQ] Uti Rogas.
*[TGP] Uti Rogas.
*[MIP] Uti Rogas
*[DIPI] Abstain.
*[TLF] UTI ROGAS
*[LMS] ABSTINEO.
*[PMS] VTI ROGAS- My thanks to the Senior Consul for attending to
this item.
*[MMA] YES (Uti Rogas)
*[AMA] Uti Rogas.
*[MOG] Uti Rogas.
*[TOPA] Uti Rogas. I would much appreciate a complete rule set,
including the rules for quorum and these rules in one document, in
the interest of clarity.
*[GPL] Uti Rogas
*[JSM] Uti Rogas.
*[LSA] Uti Rogas
*[QSP] Uti rogas.
*[ATMC] [Voted Too Late]
*[FVG] Yes (Uti Rogas)

ITEM II: Disassociation with the term "Micro nation."

Voting
Uti Rogas: 21
Antiquo: 3
Abstineo: 1
Total Votes: 25

Item II carried.

*[FAC] VTI ROGAS. A term different by micronation could explain
better what NR is and give more credits to this organization.
*[LAF] UTI ROGAS.
*[MBA] Uti Rogas.
*[PC] Antiquo.
*[MCI] Antiquo.
*[ECF] Uti rogas.
*[CCS] Uti Rogas. While term micronation has still value in some
circles, in common use it has really lost it's value. For NR it is
not anymore advantageous to be associated with this term, and
therefore we should disassociate ourselves from it.
*[LECA] Vti Rogas.
*[GEM] Uti Rogas.
*[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
*[CFBQ] Uti Rogas.
*[TGP] Uti Rogas.
*[MIP] Uti Rogas
*[DIPI] Uti Rogas. I almost was convinced by Cassius' argument on
this issue, especially as no viable alternative term has been
suggested but honestly the term has been an albatross around our
neck for too long.
*[TLF] UTI ROGAS
*[LMS] VTI·ROGAS. It is time to change our mind and take a new
path about our conception.
*[PMS] VTI ROGAS
*[MMA] NO I have seen no evidence that this term is in any way
harmful to Nova Roma. I have heard many opinions but have seen no
proof.
*[AMA] Uti Rogas.
*[MOG] Uti Rogas.
*[TOPA] Uti Rogas. The term hurts our credibility, in particular in
academic fields, where we are trying to make contacts. I support the
measure to remove it.
*[GPL] Uti Rogas. Like Senator Palladius, I too was almost
convinced by Cassius' arguments, but I feel the "micronation" term
carries more negatives than positives.
*[JSM] Uti Rogas.
*[LSA] Abstineo. I think this is a frivolous issue.
*[QSP] Uti Rogas. We need to get out of that Dungeon And Dragon
type association. Too many micronations that are run as fantasies
or ridiculous jokes.
*[ATMC] [Voted Too Late]
*[FVG] Yes (Uti Rogas)

ITEM III: Age Exemption for Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus
and Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.

(ITEM III A.) Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.

Voting:
Uti Rogas: 14
Antiquo: 7
Abstineo: 4
Total Votes: 25

Item III A carried

*[FAC] ABSTINEO. Both the Candidates, Pius specially, are good and
skilled citizens but I don't see any reason or urgence for our Res
Publica to make exceptions to the law.
*[MBA] Uti Rogas.
*[PC] Uti Rogas
*[MCI] Antiquo.
*[ECF] Uti rogas.
*[CCS] Uti Rogas.
*[LECA] Antiquo.
*[GEM] Uti Rogas.
*[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
*[CFBQ] Uti Rogas.
*[TGP] Antiquo. Either the age ( and other) requirements have
meaning or they do not. The term of office for all Nova Roman
magistrates ( except the Censors) is for one year. This is not a
long or burdensome time frame. The Republic will survive until
candidates can fulfill the requirements for standing. Exemptions
should be for extraordinary cases and circumstances.
*[MIP] Abstineo
*[DIPI] Antiquo for both. Both are good men but Audens is right, the
age exemption should be used in extraordinary circumstances, if
during a call for candidates not enough qualified candidates step
forward for the office.
*[TLF] ABSTINEO.
*[LMS] ABSTINEO. I don't really know the fellows who are on this
exemption, so I do not make a judgment of their capabilities;
however, exemptions are a dangerous tool, no matter who is the
person who takes the advantage.
*[PMS] VTI ROGAS
*[MMA] NO
*[AMA] Uti Rogas.
*[MOG] Uti Rogas.
*[TOPA] Uti Rogas. He has been around a long time already and
worked endless hours for the republic. If anyone deserves an age
exemption, he does.
*[GPL] Antiquo. I agree with Pallasdiu and Audens. Both men are
excellent civies, but why have the requirement if we are going to
consistently waive it? If there were a shortage of candidates,
perhaps, but there is no evidence such exisits.
*[JSM] Uti Rogas.
*[LSA] Antiquo.
*[QSP] Uti Rogas.
*[ATMC] [Voted Too Late]
*[FVG] Yes (Uti Rogas)

(ITEM III B.) Titus Octavius Pius Ahenobarbus.

Voting:
Uti Rogas: 14
Antiquo: 7
Abstineo: 4
Total Votes: 25

Item III B carried.

*[FAC] ABSTINEO. Both the Candidates, Pius specially, are good and
skilled citizens but I don't see any reason or urgency for our Res
Publica to make exceptions to the law.
*[MBA] Uti Rogas.
*[PC] Uti Rogas
*[MCI] Antiquo.
*[ECF] Uti rogas.
*[CCS] Uti Rogas. Even while there isn't pressing crises in our
republic to motivate such exemption, there isn't any pressing reason
either to reject request from citizens who are as active as these
two gentlemen are. Let people decide that are they up to the
challenge by voting for or against them in the elections.
*[LECA] Antiquo.
*[GEM] Uti Rogas.
*[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
*[CFBQ] Uti Rogas.
*[TGP] Antiquo.
*[MIP] Abstineo
*[DIPI] Antiquo.
*[TLF] ABSTINEO.
*[LMS] ABSTINEO.
*[PMS] Uti Rogas. In the interest of objectivity, I must as a
voting Senator make a clarification: this is not a formal
endorsement in itself for their respective candidacies in the
future....this vote is to say that these citizens are on record as
having worked very hard , and have generally demonstrated their
worthiness in my view of being granted age exemptions to run for
these offices. I think it is important to make this distinction.
*[MMA] NO (Antiquo). The rule about age limits is a good one. It
is one way to assure (hopefully) both Maturity and Integrity of
candidates. I have nothing against the above candidates, however, I
see no emergency that merits the need to overturn our laws, and
there are a plethora of positions that these individuals may serve
in to advance Nova Roma at their present age. If both are as good
as the Senior Consul has indicated, I look forward to seeing a great
improvement in the areas where these individuals labor for Nova Roma.
*[AMA] Uti Rogas.
*[MOG] Uti Rogas.
*[TOPA] Uti Rogas. I would vote abstineo, but before Item I has
been approved, that could equate voting against myself.
*[GPL] Antiquo.
*[JSM] Uti Rogas.
*[LSA] Antiquo. Without prejudice against either of these
gentlemen, I think we should either follow the law or change it, but
not make a practice of granting exemptions from it as long as it
remains law.
*[QSP] Uti Rogas.
*[ATMC] [Voted Too Late]
*[FVG] Yes (Uti Rogas)

ITEM IV: The Senate of Nova Roma recognizes Appius Claudius Priscus
as a potential threat to Nova Roma and declares him "inimicus," an
enemy of Nova Roma.

Voting:
Uti Rogas: 12
Antiquo: 10
Abstineo: 2
Total Votes: 24

Item IV was declared carried.

*[FAC] VTI ROGAS. It's not enough but this is the first step to
impose the official position against fascism, nazism and any
totalitarian political ideology.
*[MBA] Uti Rogas.
*[PC] Uti Rogas
*[MCI] Uti Rogas
*[ECF] Antiquo. Citizen Priscus has apparently committed a crime
and should be convicted accordingly by the Nova Roman law.
*[CCS] Antiquo. I see no need for the Senate to take any official
stand in this matter. We have laws and if any citizen has broken
them, there's a process to follow. If our citizens see that our law
has flaws and cannot handle crimes as they should be handled, then
let the law be modified according to the will of the people. In
either case Senate shouldn't have any need to take measures like
this.
*[LECA] Antiquo.
*[GEM] Uti Rogas.
*[GFBM] Uti Rogas.
*[CFBQ] Uti Rogas.
*[TGP] Antiquo. If this was a recommendation to the Comitia
Centuriata to strip Appius Claudius Priscus of his citizenship based
on his past actions I would vote for this. Declaring Appius Claudius
Priscus "Inimicus' has no legal effect because there is no such
thing as an "Inimicus' of the state and Hostis would be a better
word to use than "inimicus," in any case.
In the 477± years of the Roman Republic the Senate declared
someone a "hostes populi Romani" a total of nine times and all of
these were during the last decades of its existence. Not only did
these actions not preserve law and order they helped to complete the
on going destruction of the constitutional order.
In Nova Roma when Nova Roman law is silent Roman law can be
used. No lex or constitutional provision grants any organ of the
state with the power to declare anyone, citizen or not as, "hostes
populi Romani."
Under Roman law a Roman citizen could not be declared
a "hostes populi Romani" because it would have had the effect of
stripping them of their citizenship and only the Comitia Centuriata
could do that. The Senate is, according to the constitution
the "supreme policy" making authority for Nova Roma" and can issue a
Senatus consulta " on those topics upon which it shall see fit to
comment". I suggested that we make a recommendation to the Comitia
Centuriata , based on Tribune Marcus Horatius post that summarizes
Appius Claudius Priscus actions to date, that he should be stripped
of his citizenship and expelled from Nova Roma for life.
The Comitia Centuriata is empowered "To try legal cases in which the
defendant is subject to permanent removal of citizenship". By
hearing the recommendation of the Senate and his defense the Comitia
Centuriata can then vote on that recommendation and can either
acquit Appius Claudius Priscus and allow him to remain a citizen or
they can vote to strip him of his citizenship.
*[MIP] Abstineo.
*[DIPI] Antiquo. Besides being an unpleasant person who holds vile,
unpopular views, what has this person really done? One should be held
accountable for one's actions, not opinions. Now we decide what
opinions one may or may not hold in Nova Roma. This is as bad as so
called hate crime legislation in the macroworld but without any
crime other than "thought crime" to justify it.
*[TLF] ANTIQUO.
*[LMS] VTI·ROGAS. Although is not the best solution, it is maybe a
first step. But naming the problem doesn't make it dissapear; so
let's work another solution for this problem.
*[PMS] VTI ROGAS. Although I believe this measure in itself is
insufficient.
*[MMA] NO. While I neither like nor agree with this citizen of
Nova Roma, I cannot see where he has broken our laws. If he had he
would have been prosecuted per the laws of Nova Roma. Instead of
that means it has been given to the Senate to do the job of the
courts. I fully understand the Dislike and Disgust of some of our
citizens for this individual. I have had E-Mail contact with him
myself and do not relish a repeat. However, as I understand it, he
has broken no law, and he has not been prosecuted in accordance with
our laws. My questions were not answered, and so I must vote
accordingly.
*[AMA] Uti Rogas.
*[MOG] Uti Rogas.
*[TOPA] Abstineo. I may be called on to officiate against Priscus
in an eventual trial. As such, I will not take a public stand for or
against this measure.
*[GPL] Antiquo. Once again I agree with Palladius and Audens. I
believe the correct procedure should be a trial and I am unsure why
it was aborted.
*[JSM] Uti Rogas.
*[LSA] Antiquo. I have not changed my thoughts or feelings about
this individual, but I am persuaded that this is not the best way to
proceed.
*[QSP] Antiquo. I have given this some careful thought over the
last week and I have to say that the points illustrated by Senator
Audens and Senator Maximus have made me reluctant to say yes. In my
opinion the moderators have done a great job in making sure
that the doctrines of Priscus are not hitting the lists and
offending many citizens here. I have not heard that he has repeated
his offences by writing to government authorities without our
permission. The best approach for now is to control the posts of
anyone who slipped through the system and to ferret out such
controversial figures right at our gates before they get in as was
done for "blackshirt".
*[FVG] Did not vote

Sis bonus felixque
Consilibus Fabio Modiano et Minuciae Straboni

Session LXXV 7 August 2759 - Revision history

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus at 04:30, 15 August 2008

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus: New page: M Moravius Piscinus, Tribunus Plebis, Popularibus Romani, Quiritibus salutem plurinam dicit: Senate Voting Results, A. U. C. ante diem VII Idus Sextilas MMDCCLIX (7 August 2006 CE). The ...