Forum Romanum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Constitutional Law Question
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 00:49:43 -0000

Salve,

The Constitution is pretty specific that the power of intercesso is
limited to magistrates of equal or lesser authority. The exception
to the "lesser authority" being the power granted to the Tribunes to
cast a collegial intercesso against any magistrate save a Dictator or
an Interrex. The closest the Constitution comes to an "intercesso"
against an individual citizen is a Nota from the Censors.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Gallagher" <spqr753@m...>
wrote:
> Salve
>
> I have a question on Nova Roman Constitutional Law. Does the Veto
held by the magistrates pertain only to official acts of other
magistrates or can they veto the actions of an individual citizens.
>
> I think I know the answer but better safe than sorry.
>
>
> Vale
>
> Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
> Citizen
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Question for Long-Time Members
From:	"christyacb" <bryanta003@hawaii.rr.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 04:23:59 -0000

Salvete,

I found the Nova Roma site some time ago, but decided to do a bit
of research before joining. In doing so, I've had a lovely time
reading the entire message board history from 1998 onwards. Wow, what
a lively group! Please, don't take my post as anything but a series
of sincere questions. After all, I've read 4 years plus worth of
messages in 3 weeks, so past history is still rather fresh for me.

My questions are:

1. For those of you remaining active from the beginning, what is your
perception of how Nova Roma has evolved as compared to what it began?

2. Do you still feel that there is a "clique" of people who exert
primary control over the group rather than a fully integrated group?
(This taken from the 1999 debacle and a few other episodes that
brought that up in many members)

3. What kind of progress do you think the group has made towards the
original goals?

I look forward to hearing what all of you think.

Best, ChristyB


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Question for Long-Time Members
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Thu, 1 May 2003 22:56:53 -0700

Ave!
----- Original Message -----
From: christyacb
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 9:23 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Question for Long-Time Members

Salvete,

I found the Nova Roma site some time ago, but decided to do a bit
of research before joining. In doing so, I've had a lovely time
reading the entire message board history from 1998 onwards. Wow, what
a lively group! Please, don't take my post as anything but a series
of sincere questions. After all, I've read 4 years plus worth of
messages in 3 weeks, so past history is still rather fresh for me.

My questions are:

1. For those of you remaining active from the beginning, what is your
perception of how Nova Roma has evolved as compared to what it began?

I think that Nova Roma has grown, but that the number of citizens that are listed in the Album Civium is extremely over-exaggerated. I do not believe that Nova Roma has more than 400 citizens total and maybe about 175 citizens who paid the tax. I think that this is an increase from last year and I hope that every year Nova Roma grows more and with that growth there will be less of a turn-around. I also think that we have served a purpose in debunking inaccurate information in regards to ancient Rome. (You can check the archieves about the previous "Was Gladiator accurate threads.") We also are observed by scholars who view us as an living experiement and in that sense by them observing us allows those scholars to get a better picture as to how the ancients actually conducted themselves, back in the beginning there were times when there were doubts if we would actually survive (the first resignation of Flavius Vedius Germancius is a perfect example of that, the Civil War was another example of that as well.) I can say that for myself, I have gained much more insight and knowledge about the ancients being in Nova Roma than if I just read books, my experience has given me a much more insightful preception as to how it might have been for the ancients, espeically when in the Forum.
2. Do you still feel that there is a "clique" of people who exert
primary control over the group rather than a fully integrated group?
(This taken from the 1999 debacle and a few other episodes that
brought that up in many members)

Nope, since then we have set regulations as to how new members of the Board of Directors are brought on...and with the establishment of the Comitia's the preception of a clique has dimished to the point that it is now jokes recalled in fond recollections. From the time NR started it had 4 Senators, it took the Dictatorship of Flavius Vedius Germancius (back in 1999, if I recall correctly) to increase the size of the Senate and since that time the Senate has steadily grown and will continue to grow as more and more citizens take an active interest into shaping the direction of Nova Roma. Just to give a few footnotes:

In 1998, Senate was consisted of 4 people all residence of the East Coast;
In 1999, the first non-East Coast person was elected Consul and the Senate was expanded to include Europeans and people outside of the East Coast (Senate had 13 people);
In 2000, we had elected people who were not citizens when Nova Roma first began (Senate 23 people);
In 2001, we re-elected our Founders and had the first European run as a candidate (Senate 22 people)'
In 2003, the first European was elected as Consul (Senate 21 people);

3. What kind of progress do you think the group has made towards the
original goals?

Well we have implemented a tax (Dues structure) to give Nova Roma a stable source of revenue that does not rely on just the donations of citizens;
We have establised a better Constitution than our first one;
The execution of ad hoc law has been essentially eliminated;
We have a system to more accurately report our true numbers of citizens;
We have begun implmeneted rules that have started to protect the voice of the people from potential abuse;
We have streamlined application processes (instead of having applications surface mailed to the Censors residences), made the Censors office a better organized office kept in a more efficent database than on Excel (Thats where it used to be kept);
We have established separate lists dedicated to specific areas of Roman Study (Laws, Religio, Arts, Military, etc etc);
We have established the Senate and the Comitia's and in addition to that we have established working procedures for all three Comitias and the Senate itself;
All laws and regulations are accessible to the People at any time and updates usually do not take more than a few days to be posted;

These are just some of the improvements that have been done, that I can think of at 11 pm (in California).

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Active citizen from day 1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lepcis Magna
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <mcserapio@yahoo.it>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 06:46:49 -0000

AVETE OMNES

For those who are interested in Roman Africa, I remind you this
website realized with the Sodalitas Egressus:

http://www.geocities.com/africa_septentrionalis/index.html

This still need to be completed, but you could find something
interesting.

BENE VALETE
Manivs Constantinvs Serapio
Qvaestor
Dominvs Praefectvs Sodalitatis Egressvs


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Traditions of Magic in Late Antiquity
From:	"Gregory Rose" <gfr@intcon.net>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 07:40:45 -0000

G. Iulius Scaurus S.P.D.

Avete, Quirites.

Here's a link to an exhibition of the Special Collections Library of
the Univ. of Michigan,
"Traditions of Magic in Late Antiquity":

http://www.lib.umich.edu/pap/magic/

The site includes essays and images dealing with magical recipe-books,
protective magic (gems and amulets), Babylonian demon bowls, and
aggressive magic in the first to seventh centuries C.E.

Valete, Quirites.

G. Iulius Scaurus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 11:30:14 -0000

Salve,

How can the ordinary citizen be expected to pay their taxes when
office holders and Senators do not? The following officals covered
under the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi have not paid their
taxes as of May 1, 2003 and in accordance with the Lex Vedia Assidui
et Capiti Censi are no longer eligible to hold office (Link:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-05-20-i.html:

Flaverius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus, Accensus of the Sr. Consul's
Cohors

Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, Plebian Aedile

Quintius Sertorius, PROPRAETOR Canada Occidentalis

Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, PROPRAETOR Canada Orientalis

Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia

Senator Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura, PROPRAETOR Australia

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
(I paid my taxes, did you?)


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@yahoo.com.au>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 22:31:45 +1000 (EST)

Salve Quintus Cassius,

Firstly, I have paid my taxes. Unfortunately, due to
problems (which I think all citizens have had) with
PayPal, my tax payment was posted two days before the
deadline by International Money Order. Secondly, as
far as I know, I am not a senator, although I am
invested with propraetorian imperium.

Vale bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

--- quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@attbi.com> wrote:
---------------------------------
Salve,

How can the ordinary citizen be expected to pay their
taxes when
office holders and Senators do not? The following
officals covered
under the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi have
not paid their
taxes as of May 1, 2003 and in accordance with the Lex
Vedia Assidui
et Capiti Censi are no longer eligible to hold office
(Link:
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-05-20-i.html:

Flaverius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus, Accensus of
the Sr. Consul's
Cohors

Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, Plebian Aedile

Quintius Sertorius, PROPRAETOR Canada Occidentalis

Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, PROPRAETOR Canada
Orientalis

Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia

Senator Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura, PROPRAETOR
Australia

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
(I paid my taxes, did you?)


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 13:55:35 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@y...>
wrote:
> Salve Quintus Cassius,
>
> Firstly, I have paid my taxes. Unfortunately, due to
> problems (which I think all citizens have had) with
> PayPal, my tax payment was posted two days before the
> deadline by International Money Order. Secondly, as
> far as I know, I am not a senator, although I am
> invested with propraetorian imperium.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
>
> --- quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Salve,
>
> How can the ordinary citizen be expected to pay their
> taxes when
> office holders and Senators do not? The following
> officals covered
> under the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi have
> not paid their
> taxes as of May 1, 2003 and in accordance with the Lex
> Vedia Assidui
> et Capiti Censi are no longer eligible to hold office
> (Link:
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-05-20-i.html:
>
> Flaverius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus, Accensus of
> the Sr. Consul's
> Cohors
>
> Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, Plebian Aedile
>
> Quintius Sertorius, PROPRAETOR Canada Occidentalis
>
> Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, PROPRAETOR Canada
> Orientalis
>
> Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia
>
> Senator Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura, PROPRAETOR
> Australia
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
> (I paid my taxes, did you?)
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
> http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
> - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone
mobile.


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 13:59:50 -0000

My apologies for refering to you as Senator. Appius Tullius
Marcellus Cato, PROPRAETOR Canada Orientalis is the Senator, my eyes
crossed lines when lining up the titles and I accidently made you a
Senator.

I understand, the check is in the mail.

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@y...>
wrote:
> Salve Quintus Cassius,
>
> Firstly, I have paid my taxes. Unfortunately, due to
> problems (which I think all citizens have had) with
> PayPal, my tax payment was posted two days before the
> deadline by International Money Order. Secondly, as
> far as I know, I am not a senator, although I am
> invested with propraetorian imperium.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
>
> --- quintuscassiuscalvus <richmal@a...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Salve,
>
> How can the ordinary citizen be expected to pay their
> taxes when
> office holders and Senators do not? The following
> officals covered
> under the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi have
> not paid their
> taxes as of May 1, 2003 and in accordance with the Lex
> Vedia Assidui
> et Capiti Censi are no longer eligible to hold office
> (Link:
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/leges/2001-05-20-i.html:
>
> Flaverius Galerius Aurelianus Secundus, Accensus of
> the Sr. Consul's
> Cohors
>
> Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus, Plebian Aedile
>
> Quintius Sertorius, PROPRAETOR Canada Occidentalis
>
> Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, PROPRAETOR Canada
> Orientalis
>
> Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia
>
> Senator Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura, PROPRAETOR
> Australia
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
> (I paid my taxes, did you?)
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
> http://mobile.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Mobile
> - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone
mobile.


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Circus Factiones Flags
From:	"Alejandro Carneiro" <piteas@telefonica.net>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 14:42:13 -0000

Avete Cives!

The four flags of the circus factiones or teams are now in
the "Files" section, folder "Circus Factiones Flags".

The reds, whites, greens and blues have already their flags for
waving in the circus :-)

Salix Galaicus
Scriba Ludorum


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Question for Long-Time Members
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 15:50:30 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: christyacb
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 9:23 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Question for Long-Time Members
>
>
I do not believe
that Nova Roma has more than 400 citizens total and maybe about 175
citizens
who paid the tax. I think that this is an increase from last year.

Salvete Luci Sulla et omnes,

That's an interesting point. I noticed over the years that no matter
what the organization is and how many hundreds of people are in it,
only a small percent to a handfull of members take an active part in
supporting and running it. There could well be the 1700 citizens + in
spirit or on the rosters but perhaps only 400 in mind and body as you
say.

Respectfully,

Quintus Lanius Paulinus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Lucius=20Arminius=20Faustus?= <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 13:35:41 -0300 (ART)

Salve, Senator Marcus Arminius Maior had a problem on the computer HD and lost everything these days. He is going to pay late this year, but pay as ever. And some citizens of Mother Italy had also problems with the servers. This is exactly the kind of email and public bashing Nova Roma DOESN`T need. As a magistrate, I repudiate the ill-intentions of this citizen with this kind of comunication. I don�t know how is on the US, but on Brazil there is a very severe law forbidding any kind of public comunication of debt and humiliation �in consequentiam�. The album civium is already open to anyone see the status, but sure it is not right �throwing on the face� on main list. It is against all romanitas NR wants to spread, and a treat to the honour of the citizens with some kind of problem. Anyone may pay the taxes. But also much more virtue is needed to really help NR. Vale,L. Arminius FaustusQUAESTOR
Salve,

Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
(I paid my taxes, did you?)

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
O melhor e-mail gratuito da internet: 6MB de espa�o, antiv�rus, acesso POP3, filtro contra spam.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 09:58:45 -0700

Ave Lucius Arminius,

Taxes have not been a secret in Nova Roma, we each have had an opportunity to pay since Feb. 1st. That was over 90 days ago. I do not believe that Q. Cassius's post was a "bashing" post, and that is my opinion. However, Senators, Magistrates and Appartories are held up to a higher standand. According to the Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi (Section III) if taxes are not paid those citizens no longer hold office. Last year Marcus Octavius and I were diligent in making sure that before the tax period ended that all magistrates had their taxes covered, even if we had to pay for them ourselves. This year, we have a number of magistrates who are affected by this. We are supposed to be a nation ruled by law, if that is the case then we must enforce the laws that the People of Nova Roma have passed.

In the end, do not get upset at Q. Cassius for pointing out something that even you posted is public information on the website. That information is available to all people regardless if your a citizen or not. If Q. Cassius had not posted it, it probably would have been someone else.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; M Arminius Maior ; Lista_questores
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation

Salve, Senator Marcus Arminius Maior had a problem on the computer HD and lost everything these days. He is going to pay late this year, but pay as ever. And some citizens of Mother Italy had also problems with the servers. This is exactly the kind of email and public bashing Nova Roma DOESN`T need. As a magistrate, I repudiate the ill-intentions of this citizen with this kind of comunication. I don�t know how is on the US, but on Brazil there is a very severe law forbidding any kind of public comunication of debt and humiliation �in consequentiam�. The album civium is already open to anyone see the status, but sure it is not right �throwing on the face� on main list. It is against all romanitas NR wants to spread, and a treat to the honour of the citizens with some kind of problem. Anyone may pay the taxes. But also much more virtue is needed to really help NR. Vale,L. Arminius FaustusQUAESTOR
Salve,

Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus
(I paid my taxes, did you?)

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
O melhor e-mail gratuito da internet: 6MB de espa�o, antiv�rus, acesso POP3, filtro contra spam.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 13:34:24 -0400

F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Q. Cassius Calvus. Salve.

I mailed my original check on 4/07/03 with an SAS postcard enclosed to the P.O. Box in Maine. I did not receive a response but investigated with the proper magistrates. No record of my check was found. I have mailed a new check. I do not use PayPal. Respectfully. F Gal Aur Sec.


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 18:50:58 -0000

Salve, Senator,

Yes, the information is public. But if someone wants to see the debt,
goes search. Making this speech free and public, even to people not
interested, oh my, this is disgusting humiliation. On some countries,
this is forbidden by law.

There was no necessity to EXPOSE magistrates of NR to public
humiliation on the email. Cassius Calvus did a very serious mistake
and it deeply grieves me, exposing some very very very serious
magistrates of the Res Publica without any necessity. Not Cassius
himself, but each citizen with this UNHAPPY idea.

The debts are public, but shall not be adressed to public. This is my
opinion and I adress to all NR comunity that some attitudes really
breaks all the concordia between the citizens.

I�m sad. I�m a testimony of the excellent work of Arminius Maior,
soul of the Res Publica, and he doesn�t need such a unworthy
accusation against his honour.

L. Arminius Faustus
QUAESTOR

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave Lucius Arminius,
>
> Taxes have not been a secret in Nova Roma, we each have had an
opportunity to pay since Feb. 1st. That was over 90 days ago. I do
not believe that Q. Cassius's post was a "bashing" post, and that is
my opinion. However, Senators, Magistrates and Appartories are held
up to a higher standand. According to the Lex Vedia Assidui et
Capiti Censi (Section III) if taxes are not paid those citizens no
longer hold office. Last year Marcus Octavius and I were diligent in
making sure that before the tax period ended that all magistrates had
their taxes covered, even if we had to pay for them ourselves. This
year, we have a number of magistrates who are affected by this. We
are supposed to be a nation ruled by law, if that is the case then we
must enforce the laws that the People of Nova Roma have passed.
>
> In the end, do not get upset at Q. Cassius for pointing out
something that even you posted is public information on the website.
That information is available to all people regardless if your a
citizen or not. If Q. Cassius had not posted it, it probably would
have been someone else.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com ; M Arminius Maior ;
Lista_questores
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 9:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
>
>
>
> Salve, Senator Marcus Arminius Maior had a problem on the
computer HD and lost everything these days. He is going to pay late
this year, but pay as ever. And some citizens of Mother Italy had
also problems with the servers. This is exactly the kind of email and
public bashing Nova Roma DOESN`T need. As a magistrate, I repudiate
the ill-intentions of this citizen with this kind of comunication. I
don�t know how is on the US, but on Brazil there is a very severe law
forbidding any kind of public comunication of debt and humiliation
�in consequentiam�. The album civium is already open to anyone see
the status, but sure it is not right �throwing on the face� on main
list. It is against all romanitas NR wants to spread, and a treat to
the honour of the citizens with some kind of problem. Anyone may pay
the taxes. But also much more virtue is needed to really help NR.
Vale,L. Arminius FaustusQUAESTOR
> Salve,
>
> Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
> (I paid my taxes, did you?)
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> O melhor e-mail gratuito da internet: 6MB de espa�o, antiv�rus,
acesso POP3, filtro contra spam.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 19:04:23 -0000

Your post reminds me of the Archdioceses of Boston's response to the
Boston Globe reporting the publicly released court records concerning
the widespread sexual abuse by priests in the Archdiocese and the
subsequent cover up and hush money paid by the Church. Rather than
accept responsiblity for the failure to protect the children in the
Archdiocese of Boston, the Archdiocese chooses to blame the Globe for
meddling and attempting to besmirch the character of the Church.

Same case you don't like the message so blame the messenger. About
what I expect these days. Nova Roma has long since abandoned any
sense of being a republican democracy is now a complete farce and
hypocracy.

Q. Cassius Calvus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Arminius Faustus
<lafaustus@y...> wrote:
>
> Salve, Senator Marcus Arminius Maior had a problem on the
computer HD and lost everything these days. He is going to pay late
this year, but pay as ever. And some citizens of Mother Italy had
also problems with the servers. This is exactly the kind of email and
public bashing Nova Roma DOESN`T need. As a magistrate, I repudiate
the ill-intentions of this citizen with this kind of comunication. I
don�t know how is on the US, but on Brazil there is a very severe law
forbidding any kind of public comunication of debt and humiliation
�in consequentiam�. The album civium is already open to anyone see
the status, but sure it is not right �throwing on the face� on main
list. It is against all romanitas NR wants to spread, and a treat to
the honour of the citizens with some kind of problem. Anyone may pay
the taxes. But also much more virtue is needed to really help NR.
Vale,L. Arminius FaustusQUAESTOR
> Salve,
>
> Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
> (I paid my taxes, did you?)
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> O melhor e-mail gratuito da internet: 6MB de espa�o, antiv�rus,
acesso POP3, filtro contra spam.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 12:07:18 -0700

Ave Quaestor,

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:50 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation

Salve, Senator,

Yes, the information is public.

Sulla: I know that.

But if someone wants to see the debt,
goes search.

Sulla: They can.

Making this speech free and public, even to people not
interested, oh my, this is disgusting humiliation.

Sulla: I disagree, it is informing the Populace that we now have a legal situation where Senators, Magistrates and apparitores are now in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi. This is a matter that the people MUST be aware of. Magistrates are going to lose their offices, we are going to need a new election for the Plebian Aedileship.

On some countries,
this is forbidden by law.

Sulla: Really? To exercise free speech is in violation of the law? I would really like to know the cause of action that would be used to file a complaint, especially as it relates to Nova Roma.
There was no necessity to EXPOSE magistrates of NR to public
humiliation on the email.

Sulla: I disagree, we now have magistrates, and apparitories who are now in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi.

Cassius Calvus did a very serious mistake
and it deeply grieves me, exposing some very very very serious
magistrates of the Res Publica without any necessity.

Sulla: I disagree, let me explain, Either this issue can be handled above board, with the People notified that we now have a legal situation...with the people informed that we will need to have a new election to fill those magisterial positions...or would you have like this down secretly with no information being presented to the ML....I can tell you I would prefer to have the People know upfront that we have this information and here is whats going on and here is why we are taking these steps. Secret investigations, secret committees, secret actions are dangerous Quaestor and that type of atmosphere builds distrust and destroys the People's confidence.

Not Cassius
himself, but each citizen with this UNHAPPY idea.

Sulla: I do not undersetand what your trying to state here.

The debts are public, but shall not be adressed to public.

Sulla: If this was a debt I would agree, but it is not. This is a voluntary tax, you can pay it or not. Each citizen in Nova Roma has a conscious choice on whether or not they are going to pay Nova Roma. For most citizens there is absolutely no repercussion if they decide they do not want to pay a tax. A debt on the other hand is entirely different because it is something that is owed, such as money, goods or services because there is an obligation or liability to pay. That does not exist in Nova Roma because we are a voluntary organication.

This is my
opinion and I adress to all NR comunity that some attitudes really
breaks all the concordia between the citizens.

Sulla: Thats fine, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I�m sad. I�m a testimony of the excellent work of Arminius Maior,
soul of the Res Publica, and he doesn�t need such a unworthy
accusation against his honour.

Sulla: Quaestor, if this situation is so troubling for you...and you knew about this for sometime why did you not offer to pay for your own Paterfamilia's tax? This way you would have helped him to avoid this unpleasantness.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 19:23:08 -0000

See the point, citizens?
Precipitation and ill-intentions?
Naiveness or turmoil hungreness?
Both?
The first?
The last?
Neither?

We must be EXTREME careful on our posts. Citizen Calvus, see again
the consequences. Some people needs your apologize here.

L. Arminius
Quaestor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Q. Cassius Calvus. Salve.
>
> I mailed my original check on 4/07/03 with an SAS postcard enclosed
to the P.O. Box in Maine. I did not receive a response but
investigated with the proper magistrates. No record of my check was
found. I have mailed a new check. I do not use PayPal.
Respectfully. F Gal Aur Sec.


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	labienus@novaroma.org
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 14:28:04 US/Central

T Labienus Fortunatus Consul Q Cassio Calvo Quiritibusque SPD

First, do note that two steps are involved in being listed as an assiduus in
the online Album Civium. First, the civis' payment must be received. Second,
the quaestores must update the Web site. There is occasionally a lag between
the first and the second steps.

Second, any snail-mail payment that is postmarked on or before the last day of
Aprilis is still considered to have made the deadline. Therefore, it is a
little premature to begin creating lists of assidui and capite censi. I would
wait a week or so before pointing accusatory fingers.

Third, I will look at my e-mail files when I get home tonight. I believe that
some of the magistratus you've listed have either actually paid or made good
faith efforts to get their payment in on time. I know of one (whose name
escapes me at the moment) who has had real difficulty with PayPal and has, I
believe, resorted to sending his payment by post.

Valete


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"lafaustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 19:35:35 -0000

Do not run of the subject. You really are free to tell everything you
desire, and try humiliating anyone. But now feel the consequences, a
public disagreement of your attitude.

Everything is allowed, but not everything is worthy to be done. I�m
not forbidding you to make any speech you desire, talk if you desire.
But �who says everything that wants, hear what not want�. You are
free to use you right to speech to hurt, but fell the consequences to
be hurted.

Again as magistrate, as quaestor, I express my public sadness with
this poor use of the main list, the warping of tax question that
contributes on nothing with the public Concordia. This is my point.
Honor and honouring. And honor is sure more important than US$ 6,00-
25,00.

L. Arminius
Quaestor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "quintuscassiuscalvus"
<richmal@a...> wrote:
> Your post reminds me of the Archdioceses of Boston's response to
the
> Boston Globe reporting the publicly released court records
concerning
> the widespread sexual abuse by priests in the Archdiocese and the
> subsequent cover up and hush money paid by the Church. Rather than
> accept responsiblity for the failure to protect the children in the
> Archdiocese of Boston, the Archdiocese chooses to blame the Globe
for
> meddling and attempting to besmirch the character of the Church.
>
> Same case you don't like the message so blame the messenger. About
> what I expect these days. Nova Roma has long since abandoned any
> sense of being a republican democracy is now a complete farce and
> hypocracy.
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Lucius Arminius Faustus
> <lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve, Senator Marcus Arminius Maior had a problem on the
> computer HD and lost everything these days. He is going to pay late
> this year, but pay as ever. And some citizens of Mother Italy had
> also problems with the servers. This is exactly the kind of email
and
> public bashing Nova Roma DOESN`T need. As a magistrate, I repudiate
> the ill-intentions of this citizen with this kind of comunication.
I
> don�t know how is on the US, but on Brazil there is a very severe
law
> forbidding any kind of public comunication of debt and humiliation
> �in consequentiam�. The album civium is already open to anyone see
> the status, but sure it is not right �throwing on the face� on main
> list. It is against all romanitas NR wants to spread, and a treat
to
> the honour of the citizens with some kind of problem. Anyone may
pay
> the taxes. But also much more virtue is needed to really help NR.
> Vale,L. Arminius FaustusQUAESTOR
> > Salve,
> >
> > Senator Marcus Arminius Maior, PROPRAETOR Brasilia
> >
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Q. Cassius Calvus
> > (I paid my taxes, did you?)
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > O melhor e-mail gratuito da internet: 6MB de espa�o, antiv�rus,
> acesso POP3, filtro contra spam.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 19:39:18 -0000

Salve Senator,

On Brazil is forbidden making a debt public news, and announce it.
There is a Justice and Judges to deal with debts already, not the
public opinion.

You are free by constitution to speech, but are not free to
humiliate.

L. Arminius
Quaestor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave Quaestor,
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:50 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
>
>
> Salve, Senator,
>
> Yes, the information is public.
>
> Sulla: I know that.
>
> But if someone wants to see the debt,
> goes search.
>
> Sulla: They can.
>
> Making this speech free and public, even to people not
> interested, oh my, this is disgusting humiliation.
>
> Sulla: I disagree, it is informing the Populace that we now have
a legal situation where Senators, Magistrates and apparitores are now
in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi. This is a
matter that the people MUST be aware of. Magistrates are going to
lose their offices, we are going to need a new election for the
Plebian Aedileship.
>
> On some countries,
> this is forbidden by law.
>
> Sulla: Really? To exercise free speech is in violation of the
law? I would really like to know the cause of action that would be
used to file a complaint, especially as it relates to Nova Roma.
> There was no necessity to EXPOSE magistrates of NR to public
> humiliation on the email.
>
> Sulla: I disagree, we now have magistrates, and apparitories who
are now in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi.
>
> Cassius Calvus did a very serious mistake
> and it deeply grieves me, exposing some very very very serious
> magistrates of the Res Publica without any necessity.
>
> Sulla: I disagree, let me explain, Either this issue can be
handled above board, with the People notified that we now have a
legal situation...with the people informed that we will need to have
a new election to fill those magisterial positions...or would you
have like this down secretly with no information being presented to
the ML....I can tell you I would prefer to have the People know
upfront that we have this information and here is whats going on and
here is why we are taking these steps. Secret investigations, secret
committees, secret actions are dangerous Quaestor and that type of
atmosphere builds distrust and destroys the People's confidence.
>
> Not Cassius
> himself, but each citizen with this UNHAPPY idea.
>
> Sulla: I do not undersetand what your trying to state here.
>
> The debts are public, but shall not be adressed to public.
>
> Sulla: If this was a debt I would agree, but it is not. This is
a voluntary tax, you can pay it or not. Each citizen in Nova Roma
has a conscious choice on whether or not they are going to pay Nova
Roma. For most citizens there is absolutely no repercussion if they
decide they do not want to pay a tax. A debt on the other hand is
entirely different because it is something that is owed, such as
money, goods or services because there is an obligation or liability
to pay. That does not exist in Nova Roma because we are a voluntary
organication.
>
> This is my
> opinion and I adress to all NR comunity that some attitudes
really
> breaks all the concordia between the citizens.
>
> Sulla: Thats fine, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
>
> I�m sad. I�m a testimony of the excellent work of Arminius Maior,
> soul of the Res Publica, and he doesn�t need such a unworthy
> accusation against his honour.
>
> Sulla: Quaestor, if this situation is so troubling for you...and
you knew about this for sometime why did you not offer to pay for
your own Paterfamilia's tax? This way you would have helped him to
avoid this unpleasantness.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 12:46:44 -0700

Ave,

And again, you have avoided the issue, this is not a debt. Because Nova Roma is a voluntary organization. One is free to pay the tax or not.

Vale,

Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 12:39 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation

Salve Senator,

On Brazil is forbidden making a debt public news, and announce it.
There is a Justice and Judges to deal with debts already, not the
public opinion.

You are free by constitution to speech, but are not free to
humiliate.

L. Arminius
Quaestor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave Quaestor,
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:50 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
>
>
> Salve, Senator,
>
> Yes, the information is public.
>
> Sulla: I know that.
>
> But if someone wants to see the debt,
> goes search.
>
> Sulla: They can.
>
> Making this speech free and public, even to people not
> interested, oh my, this is disgusting humiliation.
>
> Sulla: I disagree, it is informing the Populace that we now have
a legal situation where Senators, Magistrates and apparitores are now
in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi. This is a
matter that the people MUST be aware of. Magistrates are going to
lose their offices, we are going to need a new election for the
Plebian Aedileship.
>
> On some countries,
> this is forbidden by law.
>
> Sulla: Really? To exercise free speech is in violation of the
law? I would really like to know the cause of action that would be
used to file a complaint, especially as it relates to Nova Roma.
> There was no necessity to EXPOSE magistrates of NR to public
> humiliation on the email.
>
> Sulla: I disagree, we now have magistrates, and apparitories who
are now in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi.
>
> Cassius Calvus did a very serious mistake
> and it deeply grieves me, exposing some very very very serious
> magistrates of the Res Publica without any necessity.
>
> Sulla: I disagree, let me explain, Either this issue can be
handled above board, with the People notified that we now have a
legal situation...with the people informed that we will need to have
a new election to fill those magisterial positions...or would you
have like this down secretly with no information being presented to
the ML....I can tell you I would prefer to have the People know
upfront that we have this information and here is whats going on and
here is why we are taking these steps. Secret investigations, secret
committees, secret actions are dangerous Quaestor and that type of
atmosphere builds distrust and destroys the People's confidence.
>
> Not Cassius
> himself, but each citizen with this UNHAPPY idea.
>
> Sulla: I do not undersetand what your trying to state here.
>
> The debts are public, but shall not be adressed to public.
>
> Sulla: If this was a debt I would agree, but it is not. This is
a voluntary tax, you can pay it or not. Each citizen in Nova Roma
has a conscious choice on whether or not they are going to pay Nova
Roma. For most citizens there is absolutely no repercussion if they
decide they do not want to pay a tax. A debt on the other hand is
entirely different because it is something that is owed, such as
money, goods or services because there is an obligation or liability
to pay. That does not exist in Nova Roma because we are a voluntary
organication.
>
> This is my
> opinion and I adress to all NR comunity that some attitudes
really
> breaks all the concordia between the citizens.
>
> Sulla: Thats fine, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
>
> I�m sad. I�m a testimony of the excellent work of Arminius Maior,
> soul of the Res Publica, and he doesn�t need such a unworthy
> accusation against his honour.
>
> Sulla: Quaestor, if this situation is so troubling for you...and
you knew about this for sometime why did you not offer to pay for
your own Paterfamilia's tax? This way you would have helped him to
avoid this unpleasantness.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Ludi Florales Trivia Contest -- Day 3
From:	Bill Gawne <gawne@cesmail.net>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 16:05:22 -0400

This is the third installment of the Ludi Florales Trivia
Contest. To participate in the contest, you must send the answers to
the following five trivia questions to: gawne @ cesmail . net
(I've added spaces between the items in that address so that Yahoo's
address munging scheme won't hide it from you, in case you read the
Nova-Roma list via the Yahoo website.) Please include
"Ludi Florales Trivia Contest" in the subject line.

Anyone who posts answers to the Nova-Roma list will be disqualified
immediately. Furthermore, if anyone does post the answers then all
replies for that day's questions will have to be disqualified. I hope
that makes it sufficiently clear that the answers are not to be
posted by anyone but me, the contest conductor.

The contest began Apr 30th, and will last through Sunday May 4th.
There will be daily winners, and an overall cumulative winner.

And now! The questions for today:

1. Whom did Cicero not defend in court?
a- Sextus Roscius Amerinus
b- Aulus Cluentius
c- Publius Vatinius
d- Marcus Aemilius Scaurus

2. Which bridge over the Tiber was the most southern one?
a- Pons Aemilius
b- Pons Aurelius
c- Pons Fabricius
d- Pons Iridium

3. Who was the first plebeian Dictator?

4. Lucius Septimius Severus was proclaimed Emperor by his soldiers.
When and where?

5. Where was Quintus Horatius Flaccus ("Horace") buried?

-- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
Curule Aedile


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"Lucius Arminius Faustus" <lafaustus@yahoo.com.br>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 20:08:39 -0000

Ave,

Anyway, debt - perhaps not �legal�, but still moral obligation. Debt
is a good word here. I�m not trying to apply macronational laws, just
�the law of good sense adressing on the list�. There is no legal
punishment for breaking this law, just a deep sadness like I do have
now.

L. Arminius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> And again, you have avoided the issue, this is not a debt. Because
Nova Roma is a voluntary organization. One is free to pay the tax or
not.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 12:39 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
>
>
> Salve Senator,
>
> On Brazil is forbidden making a debt public news, and announce
it.
> There is a Justice and Judges to deal with debts already, not the
> public opinion.
>
> You are free by constitution to speech, but are not free to
> humiliate.
>
> L. Arminius
> Quaestor
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Ave Quaestor,
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:50 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
> >
> >
> > Salve, Senator,
> >
> > Yes, the information is public.
> >
> > Sulla: I know that.
> >
> > But if someone wants to see the debt,
> > goes search.
> >
> > Sulla: They can.
> >
> > Making this speech free and public, even to people not
> > interested, oh my, this is disgusting humiliation.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, it is informing the Populace that we now
have
> a legal situation where Senators, Magistrates and apparitores are
now
> in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi. This
is a
> matter that the people MUST be aware of. Magistrates are going
to
> lose their offices, we are going to need a new election for the
> Plebian Aedileship.
> >
> > On some countries,
> > this is forbidden by law.
> >
> > Sulla: Really? To exercise free speech is in violation of
the
> law? I would really like to know the cause of action that would
be
> used to file a complaint, especially as it relates to Nova Roma.
> > There was no necessity to EXPOSE magistrates of NR to public
> > humiliation on the email.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, we now have magistrates, and apparitories
who
> are now in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi.
> >
> > Cassius Calvus did a very serious mistake
> > and it deeply grieves me, exposing some very very very
serious
> > magistrates of the Res Publica without any necessity.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, let me explain, Either this issue can be
> handled above board, with the People notified that we now have a
> legal situation...with the people informed that we will need to
have
> a new election to fill those magisterial positions...or would you
> have like this down secretly with no information being presented
to
> the ML....I can tell you I would prefer to have the People know
> upfront that we have this information and here is whats going on
and
> here is why we are taking these steps. Secret investigations,
secret
> committees, secret actions are dangerous Quaestor and that type
of
> atmosphere builds distrust and destroys the People's confidence.
> >
> > Not Cassius
> > himself, but each citizen with this UNHAPPY idea.
> >
> > Sulla: I do not undersetand what your trying to state here.
> >
> > The debts are public, but shall not be adressed to public.
> >
> > Sulla: If this was a debt I would agree, but it is not.
This is
> a voluntary tax, you can pay it or not. Each citizen in Nova
Roma
> has a conscious choice on whether or not they are going to pay
Nova
> Roma. For most citizens there is absolutely no repercussion if
they
> decide they do not want to pay a tax. A debt on the other hand
is
> entirely different because it is something that is owed, such as
> money, goods or services because there is an obligation or
liability
> to pay. That does not exist in Nova Roma because we are a
voluntary
> organication.
> >
> > This is my
> > opinion and I adress to all NR comunity that some attitudes
> really
> > breaks all the concordia between the citizens.
> >
> > Sulla: Thats fine, I guess we will have to agree to
disagree.
> >
> > I�m sad. I�m a testimony of the excellent work of Arminius
Maior,
> > soul of the Res Publica, and he doesn�t need such a unworthy
> > accusation against his honour.
> >
> > Sulla: Quaestor, if this situation is so troubling for
you...and
> you knew about this for sometime why did you not offer to pay for
> your own Paterfamilia's tax? This way you would have helped him
to
> avoid this unpleasantness.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nova-Roma-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 20:19:43 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, PADRUIGTHEUNCLE@a... wrote:
> F. Galerius Aurelianus Secundus to Q. Cassius Calvus. Salve.
>
> I mailed my original check on 4/07/03 with an SAS postcard enclosed
to the P.O. Box in Maine. I did not receive a response but
investigated with the proper magistrates. No record of my check was
found. I have mailed a new check. I do not use PayPal.
Respectfully. F Gal Aur Sec.

If you are stuck with the %50 penalty let me know, I will cover it
for you.

Q. Cassius Calvus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Answers to Ludi Florales Day 2 Trivia Questions
From:	Bill Gawne <gawne@cesmail.net>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 16:25:52 -0400

The results for day 2 are:

Quintus Cassius Calvus: 3 correct
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus: 3 correct
Gaius Iulius Scaurus: 4 correct
Alexander Probus: 4 correct.

Cumulative totals so far:

Gaius Iulius Scaurus: 9
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus: 8
Quintus Cassius Calvus: 8
Gnaeus Salix Astur: 5
Alexander Probus: 4

Congratulations to all Gaius Iulius Scaurus and Alexander Probus
our day 2 co-champions. May Flora look kindly on you both.

And now, the answers!

1. After what event did the Roman empire become christian?

In 391 AC, aka 1144 auc after Constantin's conversion on his deathbed
(Many associate Constantine's victory at the Milvan Bridge with this
event, but that was when christianity became tolerated.)

2. Most of the Roman Emperors who expanded the Empire had something
in common concerning their fathers, what?

Most of them where adopted

3. In 1806 AC, aka 2559 auc the Roman title emperor was lost, this
because another Emperor in Europe wanted so. Who was this other
Emperor?

Napoleon Bonaparte

4. In what year did the Patricians pass a law, Lex Canuleia, which
for the first time allowed Patricians and Plebeians to marry one
another?

445 BC, aka 308 auc

5. In what year was the office of Praetor created?

366 BC, aka 387 auc
(credit also given for 244 auc when the first officers of the republic
were known as praetors before they were redesignated as consuls.)

-- Gnaeus Equitius Marinus, Curule Aedile


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 13:25:37 -0700

Ave,

Lucius Arminius, for the final time, NR's tax is not a debt. You can not call it that, because it is not an accurate term.

And because you have continued to use an inaccurate term to define what the NR tax is, you ended up bringing up macronational laws, not I.

You are the one twisting words around to suite your agenda.

So to make a long story short, your failure to identify the NR tax as voluntary you are mis-informing the People of Nova Roma. That is bad, IMHO. You are a magistrate and should take greater pains to be more accurate in your dispensing of information, for that reason I am dissappointed in your actions in this debate.

Now as I have stated before, since you are so "sad" and since the information is public, and you obviously knew he was having issues before the tax deadline, why did you not pay for your Paterfamilias's tax in order to prevent your saddness.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 1:08 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation

Ave,

Anyway, debt - perhaps not �legal�, but still moral obligation. Debt
is a good word here. I�m not trying to apply macronational laws, just
�the law of good sense adressing on the list�. There is no legal
punishment for breaking this law, just a deep sadness like I do have
now.

L. Arminius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> And again, you have avoided the issue, this is not a debt. Because
Nova Roma is a voluntary organization. One is free to pay the tax or
not.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 12:39 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
>
>
> Salve Senator,
>
> On Brazil is forbidden making a debt public news, and announce
it.
> There is a Justice and Judges to deal with debts already, not the
> public opinion.
>
> You are free by constitution to speech, but are not free to
> humiliate.
>
> L. Arminius
> Quaestor
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Ave Quaestor,
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:50 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
> >
> >
> > Salve, Senator,
> >
> > Yes, the information is public.
> >
> > Sulla: I know that.
> >
> > But if someone wants to see the debt,
> > goes search.
> >
> > Sulla: They can.
> >
> > Making this speech free and public, even to people not
> > interested, oh my, this is disgusting humiliation.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, it is informing the Populace that we now
have
> a legal situation where Senators, Magistrates and apparitores are
now
> in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi. This
is a
> matter that the people MUST be aware of. Magistrates are going
to
> lose their offices, we are going to need a new election for the
> Plebian Aedileship.
> >
> > On some countries,
> > this is forbidden by law.
> >
> > Sulla: Really? To exercise free speech is in violation of
the
> law? I would really like to know the cause of action that would
be
> used to file a complaint, especially as it relates to Nova Roma.
> > There was no necessity to EXPOSE magistrates of NR to public
> > humiliation on the email.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, we now have magistrates, and apparitories
who
> are now in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi.
> >
> > Cassius Calvus did a very serious mistake
> > and it deeply grieves me, exposing some very very very
serious
> > magistrates of the Res Publica without any necessity.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, let me explain, Either this issue can be
> handled above board, with the People notified that we now have a
> legal situation...with the people informed that we will need to
have
> a new election to fill those magisterial positions...or would you
> have like this down secretly with no information being presented
to
> the ML....I can tell you I would prefer to have the People know
> upfront that we have this information and here is whats going on
and
> here is why we are taking these steps. Secret investigations,
secret
> committees, secret actions are dangerous Quaestor and that type
of
> atmosphere builds distrust and destroys the People's confidence.
> >
> > Not Cassius
> > himself, but each citizen with this UNHAPPY idea.
> >
> > Sulla: I do not undersetand what your trying to state here.
> >
> > The debts are public, but shall not be adressed to public.
> >
> > Sulla: If this was a debt I would agree, but it is not.
This is
> a voluntary tax, you can pay it or not. Each citizen in Nova
Roma
> has a conscious choice on whether or not they are going to pay
Nova
> Roma. For most citizens there is absolutely no repercussion if
they
> decide they do not want to pay a tax. A debt on the other hand
is
> entirely different because it is something that is owed, such as
> money, goods or services because there is an obligation or
liability
> to pay. That does not exist in Nova Roma because we are a
voluntary
> organication.
> >
> > This is my
> > opinion and I adress to all NR comunity that some attitudes
> really
> > breaks all the concordia between the citizens.
> >
> > Sulla: Thats fine, I guess we will have to agree to
disagree.
> >
> > I�m sad. I�m a testimony of the excellent work of Arminius
Maior,
> > soul of the Res Publica, and he doesn�t need such a unworthy
> > accusation against his honour.
> >
> > Sulla: Quaestor, if this situation is so troubling for
you...and
> you knew about this for sometime why did you not offer to pay for
> your own Paterfamilia's tax? This way you would have helped him
to
> avoid this unpleasantness.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 13:30:23 -0700


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 20:36:58 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lafaustus" <lafaustus@y...> wrote:
> Do not run of the subject. You really are free to tell everything
you
> desire, and try humiliating anyone. But now feel the consequences,
a
> public disagreement of your attitude.
>

My attitude is that I am sick and tired of the wink-wink nod-nod
shenanagahns that go on with Nova Roman law. Nova Roman law is
conveniently ignored when a person is popular and or powerful. How
quickly people forget that the proper Pater of Gens Moravia was
summarily ousted illegally. He was removed without trial, he was
removed without failure to respond to a Census (another law
conveniently ignored because 1700+ citizens looks better than a
couple hundred). He was just removed because Diana (sorry Diana as
much as I like you personally) is popular.

Its time someone stands up and tells it like it is. I don't
particularly care if people like it or don't like. I have no doubt
for one minute that if I had failed to pay my taxes to Nova Roma I'd
been removed from Rogator one second after the stroke of midnight.
Why? Because I'm not one of the "beautiful people" of Nova Roma. I
don't play the back room smoking cigars game of wink-wink nod-nod.

Q. Cassius Calvus


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 16:59:24 EDT

In a message dated 5/2/03 11:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lafaustus@yahoo.com.br writes:

> I�m sad. I�m a testimony of the excellent work of Arminius Maior,
> soul of the Res Publica, and he doesn�t need such a unworthy
> accusation against his honour.
>
> L. Arminius Faustus
>

So what you are saying Lucius Arminius, that if you are in the government,
you are above the Law?
Just trying to get things in prospective here.

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 13:14:13 -0700

Ave,

Lucius Arminius, for the final time, NR's tax is not a debt. You can call it that, but it is not an accurate term.

Because you have used an inaccurate term to define what the NR tax is, you ended up bringing up macronational laws, not I.

You are the one twisting words around to suite your agenda.

Now as I have stated before, since you are so "sad" and since the information is public, and you obviously knew he was having issues before the tax deadline, why did you not pay for your Paterfamilias's tax in order to prevent your saddness.

Vale,

Sulla
----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 1:08 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation

Ave,

Anyway, debt - perhaps not �legal�, but still moral obligation. Debt
is a good word here. I�m not trying to apply macronational laws, just
�the law of good sense adressing on the list�. There is no legal
punishment for breaking this law, just a deep sadness like I do have
now.

L. Arminius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
<alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> And again, you have avoided the issue, this is not a debt. Because
Nova Roma is a voluntary organization. One is free to pay the tax or
not.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 12:39 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
>
>
> Salve Senator,
>
> On Brazil is forbidden making a debt public news, and announce
it.
> There is a Justice and Judges to deal with debts already, not the
> public opinion.
>
> You are free by constitution to speech, but are not free to
> humiliate.
>
> L. Arminius
> Quaestor
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Cornelius Sulla"
> <alexious@e...> wrote:
> > Ave Quaestor,
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Lucius Arminius Faustus
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 11:50 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation
> >
> >
> > Salve, Senator,
> >
> > Yes, the information is public.
> >
> > Sulla: I know that.
> >
> > But if someone wants to see the debt,
> > goes search.
> >
> > Sulla: They can.
> >
> > Making this speech free and public, even to people not
> > interested, oh my, this is disgusting humiliation.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, it is informing the Populace that we now
have
> a legal situation where Senators, Magistrates and apparitores are
now
> in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi. This
is a
> matter that the people MUST be aware of. Magistrates are going
to
> lose their offices, we are going to need a new election for the
> Plebian Aedileship.
> >
> > On some countries,
> > this is forbidden by law.
> >
> > Sulla: Really? To exercise free speech is in violation of
the
> law? I would really like to know the cause of action that would
be
> used to file a complaint, especially as it relates to Nova Roma.
> > There was no necessity to EXPOSE magistrates of NR to public
> > humiliation on the email.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, we now have magistrates, and apparitories
who
> are now in violation of the Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi.
> >
> > Cassius Calvus did a very serious mistake
> > and it deeply grieves me, exposing some very very very
serious
> > magistrates of the Res Publica without any necessity.
> >
> > Sulla: I disagree, let me explain, Either this issue can be
> handled above board, with the People notified that we now have a
> legal situation...with the people informed that we will need to
have
> a new election to fill those magisterial positions...or would you
> have like this down secretly with no information being presented
to
> the ML....I can tell you I would prefer to have the People know
> upfront that we have this information and here is whats going on
and
> here is why we are taking these steps. Secret investigations,
secret
> committees, secret actions are dangerous Quaestor and that type
of
> atmosphere builds distrust and destroys the People's confidence.
> >
> > Not Cassius
> > himself, but each citizen with this UNHAPPY idea.
> >
> > Sulla: I do not undersetand what your trying to state here.
> >
> > The debts are public, but shall not be adressed to public.
> >
> > Sulla: If this was a debt I would agree, but it is not.
This is
> a voluntary tax, you can pay it or not. Each citizen in Nova
Roma
> has a conscious choice on whether or not they are going to pay
Nova
> Roma. For most citizens there is absolutely no repercussion if
they
> decide they do not want to pay a tax. A debt on the other hand
is
> entirely different because it is something that is owed, such as
> money, goods or services because there is an obligation or
liability
> to pay. That does not exist in Nova Roma because we are a
voluntary
> organication.
> >
> > This is my
> > opinion and I adress to all NR comunity that some attitudes
> really
> > breaks all the concordia between the citizens.
> >
> > Sulla: Thats fine, I guess we will have to agree to
disagree.
> >
> > I�m sad. I�m a testimony of the excellent work of Arminius
Maior,
> > soul of the Res Publica, and he doesn�t need such a unworthy
> > accusation against his honour.
> >
> > Sulla: Quaestor, if this situation is so troubling for
you...and
> you knew about this for sometime why did you not offer to pay for
> your own Paterfamilia's tax? This way you would have helped him
to
> avoid this unpleasantness.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Follow the Law (Was Debt Humiliation)
From:	AthanasiosofSpfd@aol.com
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 18:04:17 -0400

Personally, I think it is a dishonor for any magistrate (or Priesthood holder for that matter) to NOT pay the small tax imposed. If a persona simply cannot afford the tax then perhaps they should not be a magistrate, but should invest thier time in getting a job that will support them, and thier family.

The tax is not a debt. It is an impossed "fee," that without paying it restricts certain priviledges. One of these priviledges is the honor of holding public office. I fully support the law requiring magistrates to have to pay taxes.

If a magistrate has not paid thier taxes they should do so right NOW! Simply not paying them, or making up excuses, is irresponsible.

Vale;

G. Modius Athanasius

In a message dated 5/2/2003 2:35:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, lafaustus@yahoo.com.br writes:

>
>
> Do not run of the subject. You really are free to tell everything you
> desire, and try humiliating anyone. But now feel the consequences, a
> public disagreement of your attitude.
>
> Everything is allowed, but not everything is worthy to be done. I�m
> not forbidding you to make any speech you desire, talk if you desire.
> But �who says everything that wants, hear what not want�. You are
> free to use you right to speech to hurt, but fell the consequences to
> be hurted.
>
> Again as magistrate, as quaestor, I express my public sadness with
> this poor use of the main list, the warping of tax question that
> contributes on nothing with the public Concordia. This is my point.
> Honor and honouring. And honor is sure more important than US$ 6,00-
> 25,00.
>
> L. Arminius
> Quaestor


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Apologies
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 15:00:44 -0700

Avete Omnes,

My sincere apologies for the multipe posts. I do not know what happened on my end to have the post come thorugh three times.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Much ado about nothing?
From:	"M. Octavius Solaris" <scorpioinvictus@hotmail.com>
Date:	Sat, 3 May 2003 00:15:22 +0200

Salvete omnes,

Quite some time ago since I made a posting, but I'm still trying to read everything :p. In fact it was beginning to seem like something rather enjoyable, but again the nasty habit of what is conveniently called "politics" here rears its ugly head.

So what do we have? Quintus Cassius Calvus bursts out in anger towards high-ranking magistrates who have not paid yet and have passed the deadline. He thinks it's quite a disgrace for sitting magistrates not to pay. Lucius Arminius Faustus reacts that these people do not need to be nailed to the rostrum, so to speak, and some others disgruntedly react that they have paid or have tried to pay but that they experienced difficulties. Sulla appears not to understand that Faustus is upset by what he feels as something humiliating (which, in my opinion, it is!) and feels runs counter to the spirit of his own sense of legality. Sulla uses familiar words such as "agenda" to turn this into some sort of scheming affair while it clearly isn't. Faustus responds rather emotionally - and I don't say I'm agreeing with him! - which Sulla is using against him. Some empathy really couldn't hurt.

Quintus Cassius, on the other hand, soon reveals the true feelings behind his failed attempt at being the messenger of light. He finds that Nova Roma is a hypocritical mock-state with backroom politics. Everyone who knows me long enough will know that I kind of agree about this hypocrisy. Since hypocrisy occurs in almost any society it is bound to occur here as well, certainly when a brave attempt is made at trying to recreate a state. Few of us here are professional politicians so of course things will (be) run in an amateuristic manner. This not abnormal. In spite of many good intentions the system has a lot of flaws, perhaps too many to function properly all the time. In this context it's pure irony that no one noted that the name of the law is actually wrong. I pointed it out once or twice in the past but no one seemed to care.

And "care" is perhaps a vital word here... Those who do care for NR seem to be fighting among each other.

Some may note that I don't play "tax" either. Well I don't precisely because of the reasons implicitly listed above.

Optime valete,
M. Octavius Solaris

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Question for Long-Time Members
From:	politicog <politicog@yahoo.com>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 13:42:44 -0700 (PDT)

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> We have established separate lists dedicated to
> specific areas of Roman Study (Laws, Religio, Arts,
> Military, etc etc);
> We have established the Senate and the Comitia's
> and in addition to that we have established working
> procedures for all three Comitias and the Senate
> itself;
> All laws and regulations are accessible to the
> People at any time and updates usually do not take
> more than a few days to be posted;
>
>
> These are just some of the improvements that have
> been done, that I can think of at 11 pm (in
> California).
>
> I hope this answers some of your questions.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Active citizen from day 1
>
>
>

As one of the newer citizens, I appreciated Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix's rundown of Nova Roman
historian (since as a macronational I have had
undergraduate studies in history).
Just a question for anyone who knows: where can I
find the list that deals with Roman Law? I don't
remember seeing anything about that on the website.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <richmal@attbi.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 22:27:09 -0000

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, labienus@n... wrote:
> T Labienus Fortunatus Consul Q Cassio Calvo Quiritibusque SPD
>

>
> Second, any snail-mail payment that is postmarked on or before the
last day of
> Aprilis is still considered to have made the deadline. Therefore,
it is a
> little premature to begin creating lists of assidui and capite
censi. I would
> wait a week or so before pointing accusatory fingers.

Honorable Consul,

That is not what your Edict states. Your Edict states; "The tax
deadline is the last day of Aprilis. Taxes may be remitted after that
date, with a penalty of an extra 50%. Exempli gratia, a civis who
owes $12 would need to pay $18 after the deadline. "

The Edict makes no mention of postmarks. It merely states that Taxes
remitted after that date... In my line of work remittance means
cash/check in hand, not postmarked by.

I really want to believe this is not yet another case of changing the
rules when the current ones become an incovenience and that you
overlooked mentioning the postmark. I'm willing to give the benefit
of the doubt.

Vale,

Q. Cassius Calvus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Taxes/"Backroom Games"? (was:Digest Number 569 - Debt Humiliation)
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?q?A.=20Hirtius=20Helveticus?=" <hirtius75ch@yahoo.de>
Date:	Sat, 3 May 2003 00:41:27 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete omnes!

Firstly, I want all of you to know, that I am now
speaking as a citizen, and not as the elected official
I am (Rogator).

I don't see any harm done by my fellow Rogator Cassius
Calvus. He just pointed out facts, as it is his right
as citizen. My only point of criticism is the date he
chose to do so. Payments made without using PayPal may
have not yet arrived - due by April, 30th means, that
any form of payment made that day are still within
limits. So maybe he should have waited some more day,
eventually.

But that does not change the fact, that we have
several officials amongst us - both elected and
appointed - that are no longer allowed to hold their
position. What ever tragic incident may have been
preventing them of paying their taxes. In this point I
agree completely with Calvus.

--- quintuscassiuscalvus wrote:
> My attitude is that I am sick and tired of the
> wink-wink nod-nod
> shenanagahns that go on with Nova Roman law. Nova
> Roman law is
> conveniently ignored when a person is popular and or
> powerful.

Even though I am familiar with the cases brought up by
Calvus, I will not comment on them, since I do not
consider my knowledge of them to be sufficient to do
so.

> I have no doubt
> for one minute that if I had failed to pay my taxes
> to Nova Roma I'd
> been removed from Rogator one second after the
> stroke of midnight.

Possibly - but I don't think that that would have
happened already (as I pointed out above).

> Why? Because I'm not one of the "beautiful people"
> of Nova Roma. I
> don't play the back room smoking cigars game of
> wink-wink nod-nod.

Neither do I belong to them - even though I do enjoy a
good cigar from time to time ;o). But I for myself
can't see any of those "backroom games".

Nevertheless, I stand in front of you, my fellow
citizens, and ask the responsible officials to take
action according to the Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti
censi.
I do so, because I promised to all of you to uphold
the laws of NR and to backup the res publica, when I
ran for office last November (see:
http://www.novaroma.org/election/2755/rogator-hirtius.html).

Curate ut valeatis!

=====
A. Hirtius Helveticus
-------------------------
"Res Romana Dei est, terrenis non eget armis."
(Corippus, In laudem Iustini 3, 328)
-------------------------
http://www.hirtius.ch.tt/
-------------------------

__________________________________________________________________

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Bis zu 100 MB Speicher bei http://premiummail.yahoo.de


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Question for Long-Time Members
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 15:50:52 -0700

Ave,

Its novaromalaws@yahoogroups.com.

I own the list. If you would like me to add you please let me know.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: politicog
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Question for Long-Time Members

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> We have established separate lists dedicated to
> specific areas of Roman Study (Laws, Religio, Arts,
> Military, etc etc);
> We have established the Senate and the Comitia's
> and in addition to that we have established working
> procedures for all three Comitias and the Senate
> itself;
> All laws and regulations are accessible to the
> People at any time and updates usually do not take
> more than a few days to be posted;
>
>
> These are just some of the improvements that have
> been done, that I can think of at 11 pm (in
> California).
>
> I hope this answers some of your questions.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Active citizen from day 1
>
>
>

As one of the newer citizens, I appreciated Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix's rundown of Nova Roman
historian (since as a macronational I have had
undergraduate studies in history).
Just a question for anyone who knows: where can I
find the list that deals with Roman Law? I don't
remember seeing anything about that on the website.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Lucius Quintius Constantius of Lacus Magni

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [Nova-Roma] Much ado about nothing?
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@earthlink.net>
Date:	Fri, 2 May 2003 16:13:42 -0700

Ave M. Octavius,

My comments are below.
----- Original Message -----
From: M. Octavius Solaris
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 3:15 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Much ado about nothing?

Salvete omnes,

Quite some time ago since I made a posting, but I'm still trying to read everything :p. In fact it was beginning to seem like something rather enjoyable, but again the nasty habit of what is conveniently called "politics" here rears its ugly head.

Sulla: If you consider it so distasteful why do you continue to post on it. You should focus on things that bring you more pleasure.
So what do we have? Quintus Cassius Calvus bursts out in anger towards high-ranking magistrates who have not paid yet and have passed the deadline.

Sulla: Interesting that you are speculating on his state of mind at the time he published his initial post. Do you have the experience or education to make such a speculation?

He thinks it's quite a disgrace for sitting magistrates not to pay.

Sulla: I do not believe he said that. I think you ought to go back and read his initial post. He focused soley on the legalities. Per the Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi, if taxes are not received by the deadline (Ap. 30th) those members who are magistrates and apparitories who fail to pay their tax can no longer hold office.

Lucius Arminius Faustus reacts that these people do not need to be nailed to the rostrum, so to speak, and some others disgruntedly react that they have paid or have tried to pay but that they experienced difficulties.

Sulla: Yes people have had difficulty in paying their tax. However, the tax gathering period was 90 days long, that should be long enough to get taxes paid even if you were paying it via pony express.

Sulla appears not to understand that Faustus is upset by what he feels as something humiliating (which, in my opinion, it is!) and feels runs counter to the spirit of his own sense of legality.

Sulla: Actually I understand, but my concern is with the implementation of the laws as promulgated by the People. As I have stated if we are a nation of laws we have to implement them and as I have questioned Lucius Arminius if he was so distressed and sad at this situation and he knew that his pater was having issues, why did he not volunteer to pay for his Pater's taxes. In the Gens Cornelia we have established a system that if anyone in the Gens has any problem in paying their tax there is always a Cornelian at hand to cover it for them.

Sulla uses familiar words such as "agenda" to turn this into some sort of scheming affair while it clearly isn't.

Sulla: I disagree, Lucius Arminius is playing soley on emotion and ignoring the rule of law to get sympathy for his cause. Lucius Arminius has an agenda to not have his pater lose his position as governor. Just as I have an agenda to see that the laws of Nova Roma are carried out without any sign of favoritism in an open and above board fashion.

Faustus responds rather emotionally - and I don't say I'm agreeing with him! - which Sulla is using against him. Some empathy really couldn't hurt.

Sulla: Having empathy is fine, but we are not governed by our feelings. We are governed by the laws that have been passed by the People of Nova Roma. If we fail to implement the laws that we have passed then what use is there to call us a nation. We should just be a club.
Quintus Cassius, on the other hand, soon reveals the true feelings behind his failed attempt at being the messenger of light. He finds that Nova Roma is a hypocritical mock-state with backroom politics.

Sulla: If the laws that we have passed are not implemented, then I will agree with Rogator Q. Cassius Calvus.

Everyone who knows me long enough will know that I kind of agree about this hypocrisy. Since hypocrisy occurs in almost any society it is bound to occur here as well, certainly when a brave attempt is made at trying to recreate a state.

Sulla: So, Solaris let me ask you. We have a law on the books, it has been passed by the People of Nova Roma. Should we implement this law or should we establish a precedent where magistrates are above the law?

Few of us here are professional politicians so of course things will (be) run in an amateuristic manner. This not abnormal. In spite of many good intentions the system has a lot of flaws, perhaps too many to function properly all the time. In this context it's pure irony that no one noted that the name of the law is actually wrong. I pointed it out once or twice in the past but no one seemed to care.

Sulla: Solarius, you fail to recognize last year. Last year M. Octavius Germancius and I were consuls and we monitored the tax payments and made sure that all of the Magistrates taxes wer paid before the deadline. Last year you did have hear of any issue of magistrates, senators or governors fail to pay their tax. Thats because we were on top of the situation and we contacted the governors to make sure that they were able to pay. If magistrates were not able to pay the tax we made sure their taxes were paid for them. So, the system functions if there is oversight by those who govern Nova Roma.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] May TV programming
From:	"gaius117" <lanius117@aol.com>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 23:35:36 -0000

Salvete omnes,

Here are some shows that you may be interested in:

May 2 - History Channel - Caligula - Reign of Madness 9:00 pm

May 12 - History Channel - Mail Call - The Pilum 8:00 pm

May 15 - Discovery Channel - Vesuvius: Deadly Fury 10:00 pm
May 16 - " " " " " 1:00 am
May 17 - " " " " " 6:00 pm

May 28 - Discovery Channel - Who Killed Julius Caesar? 8:00 pm
" " " " " " " 11:00 pm

May 31 - Discovery Channel - The Mummies of Rome 12:00 pm
" " " Who Killed Julius Caesar? 1:00 pm

Valete,

Gaius Lanius Falco


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: Lex Vedia Assidui et Capiti Censi
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 23:52:34 -0000

Salvete omnes,

Our tax department, Revenue Canada as well as the IRS in the USA, may
the dogs gnaw their bones, go by the day your tax returns are post
marked. They say as long as the return has been stamped before
midnight on the 15 of April in the US and 30 of April in Canada, then
the returns are counted as on time. If not you face stiff penalties.
Is that not an understanding in NR?

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

>
> Honorable Consul,
>
> That is not what your Edict states. Your Edict states; "The tax
> deadline is the last day of Aprilis. Taxes may be remitted after
that
> date, with a penalty of an extra 50%. Exempli gratia, a civis who
> owes $12 would need to pay $18 after the deadline. "
>
> The Edict makes no mention of postmarks. It merely states that
Taxes
> remitted after that date... In my line of work remittance means
> cash/check in hand, not postmarked by.
>
> I really want to believe this is not yet another case of changing
the
> rules when the current ones become an incovenience and that you
> overlooked mentioning the postmark. I'm willing to give the
benefit
> of the doubt.
>
> Vale,
>
> Q. Cassius Calvus


Subject:	[Nova-Roma] Re: May TV programming
From:	"Quintus Lanius Paulinus" <mjk@datanet.ab.ca>
Date:	Fri, 02 May 2003 23:55:47 -0000

Salve Gai!

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the information. I'll keep an eye
out for these programs.

Quintus Lanius Paulinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "gaius117" <lanius117@a...> wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Here are some shows that you may be interested in:
>
> May 2 - History Channel - Caligula - Reign of Madness 9:00 pm
>
> May 12 - History Channel - Mail Call - The Pilum 8:00 pm
>
> May 15 - Discovery Channel - Vesuvius: Deadly Fury 10:00 pm
> May 16 - " " " " " 1:00 am
> May 17 - " " " " " 6:00 pm
>
> May 28 - Discovery Channel - Who Killed Julius Caesar? 8:00 pm
> " " " " " " " 11:00 pm
>
> May 31 - Discovery Channel - The Mummies of Rome 12:00 pm
> " " " Who Killed Julius Caesar? 1:00 pm
>
> Valete,
>
> Gaius Lanius Falco