Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Proposal for List Moderation
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	30 Mar 2002 18:58:27 -0300

Em Sáb, 2002-03-30 às 17:25, qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com escreveu:
> In a message dated 3/30/02 11:15:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, pokrock@aol.com
> writes:
> Salvete Quinte Cassi et al.
>
> > With all due respect to our esteemed Consul, this proposal sounds
> > very familiar. Perhaps a check of the archives, in particular
> > message # 28036, would reveal the source of this familiarity (just
> > subsitute Praetores for Senate).
>
> I am at a loss at what you are trying to say here.
>
> >
> > I agree with Amulius Claudius Petrus' response to my observations in
> > message # 28036 that it would not be in the citizen's best interest
> > to have an appointed Curator Sermonis, but instead limit the power of
> > the office in so far as ability to censor or silence as some would
> > call it critics and candidates. I do believe that it is entirely
> > unfair and frought with potential abuse that under the current laws a
> > candidate for Curator Sermonis could/can be placed on moderated
> > status and effectively silenced.
> >
>
> Oh nonsense Cassius! If you are refering to Vedia and Villius last Dec. had
> I thought that what Vedia was doing was illegul I would have certinally
> pronunce an intercessio against it. Villius was on moderated status because
> his actions against people on the list exceeded the
> guidelines set by the curator. His sanction was the result.

It seems you are misinformed I was sanctionned for the message on
resignations: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma/message/22827
the reson given to me by the Curatrix was that I was calling for
secession, which was certainly not the meaning of the message.

There is no trace of "actions against people on the list", nor will
you find any of my messages in which I attack personnaly somebody.
Nor were any messages of this type censored.

All the ceonsorship against me was made on political grounds.


> The sanction
> was running concurrently with the election. Personally I would have been on
> my best behavior before a campaign so I wouldn't be sanctioned, but that's
> just me.
>

The sanction happened in May2001, no messages were censored from july to
november, again without any solid reasons: a latin signature asking for
the removal of the Vedii from charge. Declaration which can is hard to
be considered anything else as political.
If you feel that speaking out against the current government is enough
reason for being previously censored during the following elections, it
seems you have a strange sense of democracy.

Manius Villius Limitanus

> > There is recourse built into the Constitution through the power of
> > intercesso if the Curator Sermonis is obviously maleficent in office.
> > However, without a law that says that the Curator Sermonis can not
> > censor/silence a candidate for office it would be questionable if
> > there would be grounds for an intercesso. I can only speak for
> > myself, but if I were in the position of being petitioned for an
> > intercesso, no matter how much I truly felt the party petitioning me
> > was wronged, if I had no point of law upon which I could base an
> > intercesso, I could not grant it.
> >
>
> Well then I'm glad you weren't a Tribune in that situation. If you felt that
> Villius rights were being violated and he did not exceeded the guidelines so
> the punishment was warranted, then you would have to impose your intercessio.
>
>
> >
> > are best served by a Curator Sermonis that can be removed from office
> > by the direct will of the people and that our Consul's proposal
> > throws the baby out with the bathwater. It would be better that law
> > (s) be introduced to curtail potential abuse of the position so
> > magistrates have legal grounds to issue an intercesso. Perhaps even a
> > Constitutional Amendment to the Censorial Nota to allow for the
> > removal of office an elected official that is maleficent, or just
> > plain incompetent in office.
> >
>
> The final authority of what guidelines are set and the why is that of the
> Senate.
> That is the way it has always been. If the august fathers feel the
> guidelines are excessive, they will inform the Consules.
> I'd rather have the Aediles take over the overseeing as it is more correct by
> old Roman standards. So in that case the Senate would inform the Aediles.
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Proposal for List Moderation
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <pokrock@aol.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:23:45 -0000

Salve,

> Salvete Quinte Cassi et al.
> > message # 28036, would reveal the source of this familiarity
(justsubsitute Praetores for Senate).
>
> I am at a loss at what you are trying to say here.

May I humbly suggest you please read message 28036.

> Oh nonsense Cassius! If you are refering to Vedia and Villius last
Dec. had

I am not refering to Vedia and Villius in specific, but since you
bring this up as a specific....

I don't believe for one minute that Vedia silenced Villius, though
I'm sure Villius would argue otherwise. That said, Villius did have
a valid point that she could have done so. It would have been
perfectly legal to do so as there is no law that says she or anyone
else in the future course of office can't. Let's face it, ", may not
be restricted by the State, except where they represent an imminent
and clear danger to the Republic" (Nova Roma Constitution II.B.4) is
pretty vague and up to interpetation of the Curator Sermonis. And
believe me when I say that Vedia and I butted heads in private over
her interpetations. Villius and I may have disagreed vehemently over
the language lex, but I was supportive of him having the right to be
heard and for Vedia to stop using sledgehammers where feathers would
do nicely.


> Well then I'm glad you weren't a Tribune in that situation. If you
felt that
> Villius rights were being violated and he did not exceeded the
guidelines so
> the punishment was warranted, then you would have to impose your
intercessio.

Under what point of law could an intercesso be issued? There is no
law that says a candidate must be unmoderated, uncensored for at
least the duration of the contio. As there is no law, there is no
violation of the law, thus no grounds for an intercesso. As for
rights under the Constitution, II.B.4, in the case of Villius his
rights were not violated, which is particularly evident by Vedia's
having sent his missives to the board for public view. Yet at the
same time I could feel for his frustration of being a candidate for
office and having to have his campaign "approved" by his opponent.
Given the evidence, the law, the Constitution, an intercesso I could
not have given no matter how much I could understand his point of
view.

This stems from my personal beliefs about the rule of law, and
distaste for "judicial legislation." A magistrate with the power of
intercesso is a de facto judge. A judge must base his or her
decisions based upon the law, not personal opinions about the law.
If the law is flawed, change the law.

As for the events that lead to Villius' being moderated in the first
place, he should have appealed for intercesso way back then if he
felt he was being maligned. In the case of Vedia/Villius there was a
request for intercesso by Titus Horatius Atticus, but was rejected by
then Praetor Caius Flavius Diocletianus because so summarize his
opinion in a nutshell, "It was just way too late for it to have made
any difference."


> The final authority of what guidelines are set and the why is that
of the
> Senate.
> That is the way it has always been. If the august fathers feel the
> guidelines are excessive, they will inform the Consules.
> I'd rather have the Aediles take over the overseeing as it is more
correct by
> old Roman standards. So in that case the Senate would inform the
Aediles.


Perhaps, perhaps not. I do think that you are most likely correct as
to the "proper" place of the Curator Sermonis, but that is difficult
to say since the office is without presidence in the old Republic.
Whether under the Praetors, Aediles, or elected position with
specific instructions in the law, I do think that one thing that we
do agree upon, Maximus, is that the current situation with the
Curator Sermonis is flawed though our reasons may differ.

Pax,

Quintus Cassius Calvus

Subject:	[novaroma] New Ludi Section at NovaRoma.org
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@bconnex.net>
Date:	Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:17:09 -0500

Salvete cives et amici,

The aging Ludi section of NovaRoma.org has been updated and remodelled. For
the latest information on the comming celebrations to be hosted by the
aediles of Nova Roma you can now visit the new site at
http://novaroma.org/ludi/.

For those citizens who enjoy the arts, I especially recommend a visit to
this site. Here you can discover how to get involved in the Megalesia
Cultural Award and Cerialia Art Contest. The more competition and works
submitted for these events the better!

Valete,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
--

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Proposal for List Moderation: attacks against Vedius
From:	qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com
Date:	Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:44:47 EST

In a message dated 3/30/02 4:41:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
loos@qt1.iq.usp.br writes:


> If you feel that speaking out against the current government is enough
> reason for being previously censored during the following elections, it
> seems you have a strange sense of democracy.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
Salve Mani Villi Limitane

<sigh> Repeat after me, Nova Roma is a republic. Nova Roma is not a true
democracy. Next, if you break the list guidelines, you will be sanctioned.
Personal attacks against other citizens in public on the list is not
political criticism.
If I call Octavius and Cornelius fascists, I am not within the guidelines,
but if I say the current consulship is fascist in nature, it is my opinion
and I can use it since it becomes governmental not personal. A fine line,
true, but still one with a definite difference. You made personal attacks
against the consul himself, not the way his administration was carried out.

Q. Fabius Maximus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Mediatlantica Citizens Please Read
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:34:50 -0000

Salvete,

All citizens of Mediatlantica Province are invited to subscribe to
the new Mediatlantica Mailing List.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mediatlanticaprovincia/

If you have any trouble, please email me at gcassiusnerva@cs.com

Thank You!

Nerva

Subject:	[novaroma] Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List Moderation}
From:	"gcassiusnerva" <gcassiusnerva@cs.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:57:02 -0000

Limitanus said <<I was sanctionned for the message on resignations:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma/message/22827 the reson given
to me by the Curatrix was that I was calling for secession, which was
certainly not the meaning of the message.>>

But in post 22827, Limitanus says, "Resigning is not the best
solution, secession seems far better to me."

Limitanus, could you explain to us all why {1} you think secession
from Nova Roma is a good idea, and {2} why Nova Roma should tolerate
advocacy for secession on it's own mailing list?


Gaius Cassius Nerva

Subject:	[novaroma] A quick apology to Q. Fabius Maximus
From:	"quintuscassiuscalvus" <pokrock@aol.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:06:50 -0000

Salve,

My apologies to having refered to you as Maximus where I should have
properly called you Fabius.

Pax,

Quintus Cassius Calvus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Ludi Section at NovaRoma.org
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@telia.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:32:17 +0200

Salve Illustrus Colleague!

I must Congratulate You on setting up this nice site. Your own part,
concentrated on Ludi Ceralia is very beautiful and informative!!!
Thank You! I think that we slowly are re-constructing the strength
and beauty of our ancient office!

>Salvete cives et amici,
>
>The aging Ludi section of NovaRoma.org has been updated and remodelled. For
>the latest information on the comming celebrations to be hosted by the
>aediles of Nova Roma you can now visit the new site at
><http://novaroma.org/ludi/.>http://novaroma.org/ludi/.
>
>For those citizens who enjoy the arts, I especially recommend a visit to
>this site. Here you can discover how to get involved in the Megalesia
>Cultural Award and Cerialia Art Contest. The more competition and works
>submitted for these events the better!
>
>Valete,
>
>--
>Amulius Claudius Petrus
>Curule Aedile of Nova Roma, MMDCCLV a.u.c.
>Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
>Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
>Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
>
>Canada Orientalis Website:
>www25.brinkster.com/canorien/
>
>Gens Claudia Website:
>www27.brinkster.com/gensclaudia/
>--
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/A=847665/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vbW9uc3RlcjcuZGF0=1017537532%3eM=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705313712:HM/A=847665/R=1>
>
>
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>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.


--

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Senator et Senior Curule Aedile
Propraetor of Thule
AUCTOR LEGIONIS, Legio VII "Res Publica"

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an official opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
The homepage of Senior Curule Aedile
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus and his Cohors Aedilis
http://italia.novaroma.org/cohorsaedilis/
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Secession from NR? {Was Re:Proposal for List
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	31 Mar 2002 08:26:10 -0300

Em Dom, 2002-03-31 às 02:57, gcassiusnerva escreveu:
> Limitanus said <<I was sanctionned for the message on resignations:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma/message/22827 the reson given
> to me by the Curatrix was that I was calling for secession, which was
> certainly not the meaning of the message.>>
>
> But in post 22827, Limitanus says, "Resigning is not the best
> solution, secession seems far better to me."
>
> Limitanus, could you explain to us all why {1} you think secession
> from Nova Roma is a good idea, and {2} why Nova Roma should tolerate
> advocacy for secession on it's own mailing list?

1) Read what I said: Resigning is a bad idea because you resign from
your romanitas. A true roman does not resign from romanitas. If he is
very mecontent about the current state of affairs he uses secession
showing another possible
Rome, just like it was done several times in history. The plebs made
secession and won the tribunate through this in one of the secessions.
Secession was a "normal" practize all along in Roman history as an
extreme measure. Never was such a sessecion punished, accords were
reached. This is what I think should be the modfel for all romans, not
mass resignations.

2) Because it is a normal historical AND political opinion. All around
the world there are secessionist movements that are able to express
themselfs absolutely normally inside of their country ex: in Italy they
participate in the actual government, in the UK the Sinn Fein is
represented in the Ulster parliament, in France many secessionists have
seats the Corse legislative. In Spain, the political arm of the ETA
(forgot its name) is in the legislative of Euskadi. Etc. etc.

What should be important for Romans is romanitas, not the fear of
secession.

Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Proposal for List Moderation: attacks against
From:	Michel Loos <loos@qt1.iq.usp.br>
Date:	31 Mar 2002 08:46:42 -0300

Em Dom, 2002-03-31 às 00:44, qfabiusmaxmi@aol.com escreveu:
> In a message dated 3/30/02 4:41:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> loos@qt1.iq.usp.br writes:
>
>
> > If you feel that speaking out against the current government is enough
> > reason for being previously censored during the following elections, it
> > seems you have a strange sense of democracy.
> >
> > Manius Villius Limitanus
> >
> Salve Mani Villi Limitane
>
> <sigh> Repeat after me, Nova Roma is a republic. Nova Roma is not a true
> democracy.
Salve ,

Repeat after me: republic and democracy are in two separate categories.
Republic is with Kingdom, Democracy with Oligarchy and Tyranny.
The 2 categories can be mixed as you want to. NR is a
democratic/oligarchic (all people vote but with difference weights)
republic.

> Next, if you break the list guidelines, you will be sanctioned.
> Personal attacks against other citizens in public on the list is not
> political criticism.
> If I call Octavius and Cornelius fascists, I am not within the guidelines,
> but if I say the current consulship is fascist in nature, it is my opinion
> and I can use it since it becomes governmental not personal. A fine line,
> true, but still one with a definite difference. You made personal attacks
> against the consul himself, not the way his administration was carried out.
>

Read my mails, I said their actions were fascistic, which seems to me
that it is even milder as "fascist in nature". And I said theywere
damageable to NR and should be removed form charge, again a sentence
prounced all around the world on a daily basis by hundreeds of
politician, even in not so democratic countries.

Manius Villius Limitanus

> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	[novaroma] Romanitas, was Re: Secession from NR?
From:	Piparskeggr - Venator <catamount_grange@inwave.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:36:56 -0600

Ave Manius Villius, et Salvete Omnes,

I usually observe and do not comment. But, some messages of recent origin, including the recent
departures have prompted me to "mount the Rostrum."

If I may, a few observations, questions and some commentary?

Michel Loos wrote:
>
> [excision]
>
> 1) Read what I said: Resigning is a bad idea because you resign
> fromyour romanitas. A true roman does not resign from romanitas.
> [amicable excision]
> What should be important for Romans is romanitas, not the fear of
> secession.
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>

As Romanitas is a State of Being, a Virtue... From my view, one either has Romanitas or one does
not. Just as one would possess Pietas, Dignitas, Comitas, Felicitas, etceteras to greater or lesser
degree.

How does one resign from Virtue?

If one, upon leaving any group, exhibits behavior, contrary to the stated Virtues of the group, did
one have the Virtues, truly? Or, was one merely playing a role, acting as expected without
conviction or meaning?

This point is unclear to me.

I believe I do understand the distinction that you are striving to draw between resignation and
secession, though.

Here are my thoughts.

One can, in my opinion, resign from one group as an individual, join or form another, and still live
the Virtues. Many can do likewise, even exit as a body, and still live the Virtues. This latter
fits the description of secession in my understanding. Several and diverse persons, gathering as a
new group, similar to the "Mother Nation," but under a new or modified governance.

I think we have had both resignations, and de facto secessions.

Resignations do have a recognized procedure in place. This is for the good and helps to lessen the
impact.

I do not think we should, especially at this young and fragile age which our Republic has achieved,
have a secession mechanism in place. Save for our magistrates and Priests, there are no Holy Oaths
binding one to Nova Roma and Her people. The men and women herein are freeborn individuals, and are
free to go. I would hope that one might chose to stay, fight for what one believes is true ad just,
but perhaps, change methods if the ones currently in play seem to produce more alienation than
cooperation.

A nation is a cooperative venture. That moment when I becomes We is a mystical and powerful one.

We have barely begun hammering out a recognizable Code of Laws. That should be our aim at this
time. We must set a solid foundation in place for the building of that which will be a New Rome,
This will take many years to come into physical being. We, the first generation of the New City are
the trench diggers, striving to find bed rock upon which to set the base stones. We will, all of us
who labor, get at least a little dirty from time to time. We should remember that our Duty as
Romans is to work, to support our fellows, to correct them in error (certainly), but to always place
the good of the People and Republic before personal gain or ambition.

We are at the stage, metaphorically, of Romulus and Remus. We are a collection of small huts strewn
across the Seven Hills of our hopes, dreams, aspirations, plans, pieties, amusements and studies.
We are at the stage when the Tribes came together and looked to build.

We are, in large part, still an ephemeral nation, still the primal gas cloud from which the Sun,
Stars and Planets formed. Bits and pieces have coalesced. There have been an increasing number of
gatherings, cementing the bonds within "planet" Nove Roma. Might other Roman "planets" form, of
course.

I am a man of the Northern Faithway and predominantly of Northern Kinship. Historically, my
Forebears and the Romans were not, shall we say, on the best of terms? I am also a man of Rome,
accepted as such by the Holy and by my friends here. I care for this City abuilding, it is a worthy
work, despite the too ready drawing of the verbal gladii, despite the politics, despite the lack of
cultural content in this Forum (to which others have alluded), despite the resignations of longtime
Nova Romans and new, I'll be here, helping as time and resources allow.

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Civis Nova Romana et Paterfamilias

Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.htm

"In Romae viae omniae terminant"

Subject:	[novaroma] Familiar Words
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:01:58 -0500 (EST)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

Here again we see the familiar words of the Demgogue:

"Oligarchy, Tyranny, and Fascist"

The only too familiar squawking cries of the black crow of
disappointment.

--------"I cannot have my way, so it is Oligarcy, Tryanny and Fascism
which keep me from it!!!" (On the part of others, of
course!!)-----------------

Gee, it doesn't seem so very long ago that another black crow sat on the
same fence squawking the same tune. That crow's intended audience was,
of course, different, because we now have a different set of
Magistrates, but the song is very familar as to word, tune and intent.

My thoughts run along the same lines as my good friend,
Piparskeggr--Venator. Perhaps the real way to build the foundation of
this Republic is to work together. Wow, what a concept!!!! Put our
heads together to try and see the points of valid argument in those who
approach a given problem, and then work together in amity, and even
(Lord!!!!! What a Bright New Idea!!!!!!) Friendship and enjoyment.

I am just back from a day of restoration work at a local historic
monument. We are seven in number, and our efforts yesterday were
satisfactory to all, in spite of our varying ideas and background, we
were all looking for the same goal. We all worked at different tasks to
further us toward that goal. pooling ideas, each from thier own
expertise. How very proud I was of this group to whom I belong!!! How
I wish that this NR group could get along so well!!!! Could move
towards it's goal so smoothly, could view other's ideas with real value,
and could work so well at so wide a variety of tasks to bring such, all
together.

Of course, there are more of us here, and more views to master, but
perhaps we do not need a squawking crow to remind us of the three words
of black depression that clouds our every move towards a goal to which
we all aspire. Perhaps it is not necessary to tie to every attempt
toward this prize of a new Republic, the black cloud of doom, to depress
and in some cases discourage our citizens so that they drop from sight.
In short. perhaps it is not necessary to listen to every disappointed
crow, who cannot have his or her way dispite good reasons given to ad
nauseum as to the reason why not. Perhaps it is not neccesary to burden
our selves with such heavy, heavy, heavy, baggage!!!!!

I see no Tyranny, no Fascism, and certainly no Oligaric tendencies here
in Nova Roma and I have some small experience here in nearly all the
aspects of this Republic. However, I have seen and see now those whose
self-importance overwhelms their own sense of worth. Let them settle
down calmly to work quietly with others in patiently laying the
foundations of our Republic, and let those who have proven themselves in
service and ideas, by doing just that, since this Republic began, deal
in the responsibilities as granted to them by election or appointment.
If these Magistrates or Senators overstep thier authority, and such can
be proven (proven I say, not conjectured) then let them be accused and
until then, let us work together at our given tasks with energy, amity,
skill and above all the determination to see the good points in our
opponent's views, and perhaps in the glad appreciation of working toward
a united goal, we can silence thier tendencies to squawk, about
improbable political disasters in the distant and very unlikely offing.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audems

Subject:	[novaroma] Attacks Against Nova Roma
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:35:49 -0500 (EST)

Have a care Limitanus!!!!

I am at once a Magistrate, ProConsul, and Senator in the present
government of Nova Roma. I have pledged my Oath to the elected
Magistrates with this government.

While I consider myself part and parcel of this Consulship, and the
government of Nova Roma, bound by my Oath, and elected by the vote of
the Citizens of Nova Roma, I do NOT see myself as an Oligarch,
Tyrannist, or as a Fascist!!!!! I consider such an accusation to be a
personal insult directed at both myself, and those who have elected me,
or appointed me to my current positions of honor.

While I fully understand that one who will bash another's culture from
without that culture, and one who will accuse without proof or even
viable intent, the elected Magistrates of this Consulship, and rail
against the honesty and forthrightness of the Senators elected by the
Citizens (or appointed in some cases by extraorinary efforts for Nova
Roma on thier part) of Nova Roma, will not appreciate honor in any other
individual, I tell you now that I consider such unsupported accusations
to be insults directed personnally to me, and which come under the
meaning of my Oath to direct my efforts against, in defense of Nova
Roma.

Your agreement or disagreement with this view means little to me, in
light of your past demogguery, and I now inform you that as a result of
your last comments, I must by my Oath regard you as a person rising
against Nova Roma, without proof, past effort or viable future value.

Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor, ProConsul et Senator

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Attacks Against Nova Roma
From:	"otto_von_sitter" <otto_von_sitter@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:28:20 -0000

I don't know how this started and I don't care to find out. Whatever
the issue, SET IT ASIDE! Act like the adults you are and let our
elected leaders do their job. I am sick and tired of leaders being
accused of being dictators when all they are doing is what they were
elected to do. If you have a disagreement with the way our elected
leaders are doing things, go through the proper channels. There has
to be some kind of chain of command for NR. Talk to your Pater or
Mater about it before you start calling our leaders names. Keep
frosty!

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

--- In novaroma@y..., MarcusAudens@w... wrote:
> Have a care Limitanus!!!!
>
> I am at once a Magistrate, ProConsul, and Senator in the present
> government of Nova Roma. I have pledged my Oath to the elected
> Magistrates with this government.
>
> While I consider myself part and parcel of this Consulship, and the
> government of Nova Roma, bound by my Oath, and elected by the vote
of
> the Citizens of Nova Roma, I do NOT see myself as an Oligarch,
> Tyrannist, or as a Fascist!!!!! I consider such an accusation to
be a
> personal insult directed at both myself, and those who have elected
me,
> or appointed me to my current positions of honor.
>
> While I fully understand that one who will bash another's culture
from
> without that culture, and one who will accuse without proof or even
> viable intent, the elected Magistrates of this Consulship, and rail
> against the honesty and forthrightness of the Senators elected by
the
> Citizens (or appointed in some cases by extraorinary efforts for
Nova
> Roma on thier part) of Nova Roma, will not appreciate honor in any
other
> individual, I tell you now that I consider such unsupported
accusations
> to be insults directed personnally to me, and which come under the
> meaning of my Oath to direct my efforts against, in defense of Nova
> Roma.
>
> Your agreement or disagreement with this view means little to me, in
> light of your past demogguery, and I now inform you that as a
result of
> your last comments, I must by my Oath regard you as a person rising
> against Nova Roma, without proof, past effort or viable future
value.
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
> Quaestor, ProConsul et Senator

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: With Sadness
From:	"otto_von_sitter" <otto_von_sitter@yahoo.com>
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:35:52 -0000

My condolences are also with him. I know a small bit of what he's
going through as not that long ago I also lost a family member. My
thoughts are with you, Cato.

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

--- In novaroma@y..., "luciuspompeius" <danielovi@y...> wrote:
> I wish to express sincerely my condolences for this very sad moment
> for him.
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
>
>
> --- In novaroma@y..., "pompeia_cornelia" <trog99@h...> wrote:
> > Salvete Omnes:
> >
> >
> > I have received word from Senator Cato that his father passed on
> > yesterday morning at approximately 5 am EST.
> >
> > This situation is most certainly a rough road; when I look at my
> > relationship with my own father...how he has positively
influenced
> my
> > life and outlook, his support, his humour, his love, I can gather
> > atleast a partial glimpse of how Senator Cato and family must be
> > feeling right now.
> >
> > I thought it appropriate to make the community aware of this turn
> of
> > events.
> >
> > May our thoughts, prayers and offerings continue to be with Cato
> and
> > his family during this difficult time.
> >
> > Bene valete,
> > Pompeia Cornelia
> >
> >
> > B

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Attacks Against Nova Roma
From:	MarcusAudens@webtv.net
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:46:10 -0500 (EST)

Master Marcus Cornelius Tiberius;

Since you do not direct your message to any given person or persons it
is difficult to determine your message intent and direction.

My message, the one that you repeated, was a warning against just the
sort of thing you are referring to. While you are fairly new to Nova
Roma, there has in the past been a parade of those who choose to accuse
those elected Magistrates of the favorite words of the disappointed and
dissatisfied. A review of the NR archives will certainly back my
assertions. At some point, they must each be warned. I consider this
to be such a warning.

I also consider myself to be an adult, if your message was directed to
me, and as an adult it is my responsibility at some point to correct
those who act as childen. I have completed the Cursus Honorium (one of
three in NR to do so) and presently hold positions of honor and
responsibility in Nova Roma. I feel my Oath and Honor impinged by the
malicious statements made by Limitanus, and I felt the need to make that
statement. If by so doing, I have caused you pain, my apologies, but I
felt the necessity of the situation demanded my honesty and
forthrightness as a Magistrate and Senator, just as similar situations
in the past have demanded the same kind of response.

Respectfully;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Subject:	[novaroma] Land
From:	jmath669642reng@webtv.net
Date:	Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:02:39 -0500 (EST)

Honorored Consuls, Senate Fathers, and Citizens of Nova Roma;

Since there seems to be a continuing interest in land acquisition here
in Nova Roma, and since there also appears to be a wide variety of
views, about the location, size, usage, needs and determination of the
various factors concerning the land movement in Nova Roma (See my letter
to NRLand Project of this date), I most humbly ask the consideration of
the Senate to appoint a Land Committee to consider the various questions
of land acquisition for Nova Roma, make a listing of these questions,
determine some methods for solving these questions, and setting before
the Senate a set of recommendations for determineing a resolution to
these questions, in preparation for the ultimate land acquisition, as
mentioned in the Constitution.

Further, I offer my efforts, meager though they may be, to represent the
Senate in this endeavor and deliver to the Senate periodic reports on
the activity of this suggested committee and the results of it's
efforts.

I make this request in behalf of those members of the NR Land Project
List, and from the sure knowledge that the significant amount of
details, questions and comments relating to these considerations must be
in some degree attempted to be reviewed, discussed, and a suggested set
of guidelines submitted to the Honored Senate for thier consideration.

Very Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Minucius Audens
Senator et ProConsul

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


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