Forum Romanum


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Lex Vedia de Oratio: Nonne
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:08:27 -0500

Salvete;

One wonders how the situation is any different than Sulla's name-change
edict last year. If I recall correctly, it was at his own insistance that
the edictum he promulgated was put for a vote in the Comitia Populi. It was,
after all, a controversial issue, and the voice of the People was sought.

Is the language issue not also a controversial issue? Is it not proper,
then, to seek the voice of the People?

It was good enough for Sulla's name-change edict. I believe it should be
good enough for Priscilla's language edict.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: trog99@-------- [mailto:trog99@--------]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:48 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Lex Vedia de Oratio: Nonne
>
>
> Salvete Populace Nova Roma:
>
> As I have mentioned to others privately, I shall say publicly, and for
> basically the same reasons already stated, I am weightedly encouraging
> a vote of no for this lex.
>
> When we vote in a curatrix sermonis, we invest in her/him our trust as
> an elected magistrate. The candidates policies are stated, and we as
> the populace decide if their respective approaches to list moderation
> are appropriate. Hopefully, experience is taken into account too.
>
> There is no point in the populace voting in a magistrate who is going
> to be directed by law to such an extent that if a more attractive idea
> to language issues materialize, they cannot be implemented. This
> individual may as well be as scribe, appointed and working under the
> Senate.
>
> The policies of Priscilla Vedia have made for a smooth running
> (fairly) this year, and her ability to keep the list secure of trolls
> and other trouble-causing persons has been commendable, which to a
> small extent, has clashed with the language issue.
>
> HOWEVER (not yelling).........
>
> This does not mean that they should be legislated in stone so another
> idea couldn't be tried sometime down the road.
>
> As much as Pricilla's policies have tried to serve the majority in
> keeping with what I believe is a sense of fairness on her part, there
> are many nonspeaking English citizens who long for another policy
> where they would safely be able to use their native tongues. We should
> allow ourselves flexibility for new ideas.
>
> And it should be kept in mind that in the event a Curator/rix is
> defying the laws or constitution in his dealings with list moderation,
> said magistrate is subject to veto by the Tribunes, Praetors, etc.,
> further negating the need for the proposed legislation.
>
> And another thought: two pieces of legislation have been recently
> promulgated which defy the Senate's counsel in the form of consulta.
> What is the point of our conscript maters/paters debating these issues
> in Senate Session, when their august advice is arbitrarily ignored?
> This language policy of the Senate, delegating to the curatrix rather
> than dictating, passed uncontested by all Senators. Why is it so
> necessary to put teeth on it now? And if it is a matter of imminence,
> why wasn't it addressed earlier in the year?
>
> Ahh, wouldn't it be nice if we all knew the Latin with
> proficiency?........one day :)
>
> Bene valete,
> Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
> Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
> Candidate Praetor Urbanus
> NOVA ROMA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Contra Leges Vediarum
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:21:17 -0500

Salvete;

> -----Original Message-----
> From: labienus@-------- [mailto:labienus@--------]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:21 AM
>
>
> Second, the Lex Vedia de Oratio is an unnecessary measure that removes the
> flexibility allowed by having a curator sermonis--a flexibility recognized
and
> approved by the Senate. Additionally, neither of the policies being
advocated
> by our two candidates represents any clear danger to the Res Publica. Any
> clearly unfortunate policy will only persist for a year at worst, and will
> likely be changed long before that. There is, therefore, no compelling
reason
> to remove the curator sermonis' flexibility in the matter.

Indeed; why pass any laws at all? By definition, any lex passed by the
People removes flexibility from the edicta of the magistrates. Why pass a
lex regarding voting rules? Surely the Consuls and Tribunes can simply issue
edicta. Why pass a lex regarding a Cursus Honoru? Surely that can also be
handled by edicta. The same could be said for almost every lex that has
passed-- including the name-change edict which was voted on earlier this
year (at Sulla's insistence).

The answer, of course, is twofold. First, some issues cry out for
consistency. To have a given policy change hither and yon every time a new
person takes office, without the input of the People, is not constructive in
some cases (particularly those cases where the question is hotly contested).
To vote on a lex removes the issue as a political football (who but the most
obsessive or pedantic has banged the name-change drum lately, for
instance?). Second, in such cases, the Will of the People must be obtained
in order to determine what consistent decision should be made. While a poll
was conducted earlier this year (with a greater than 60% approval rating, I
should note) regarding the language issue, such is necessarily an informal
thing, and should not take the place of a proper vote, in the polls, to
determine the Will of the People.

People seem to like the English-translation rule, as a whole. I say let
their voices be heard, and let that popular rule be undertaken as the
consistent and lawful rule. If not, then let the next Curator Sermo know
that too, and have the result of the vote upon which to draw.

It was good enough for the name-change edict, let it be good enough for the
English translation rule, too.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul


Subject:	[novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:22:59 -0500

Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.

Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my Consular
Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has failed to
respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year. I do not
want the record to show that he held the post for the duration of my term of
office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Lex Vedia de Oratio: Nonne
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:20:28 -0600 (CST)

Salve Consul,

> Is the language issue not also a controversial issue? Is it not proper,
> then, to seek the voice of the People?

Is it proper to redefine the responsibilities of an office while
candidates are running for that office, for the apparent purpose of
rendering the campaign platform of one candidate illegal?

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Lex Vedia de Oratio: Nonne
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:34:19 -0500

Salve;

If that is the Will of the People, then how likely is it that both the law
would be passed and that candidate elected? Hardly a likely outcome...

And even so, I say the Will of the People trumps the Will of any single
magistrate. If I thought otherwise, I would re-issue the language policy as
an edict myself, thus making it impossible for Limitanus alone to override
it next year, should he be elected. I will not be doing so, of course,
because I am willing to abide by the Will of the People.

Vale

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:haase@--------]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:20 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: RE: [novaroma] Lex Vedia de Oratio: Nonne
>
>
> Salve Consul,
>
> > Is the language issue not also a controversial issue? Is it not proper,
> > then, to seek the voice of the People?
>
> Is it proper to redefine the responsibilities of an office while
> candidates are running for that office, for the apparent purpose of
> rendering the campaign platform of one candidate illegal?
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Curator Araneum et Senator
> Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
> http://www.konoko.net/~haase/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] First anniversary provincia Argentina Sp./Eng.
From:	"Daniel" <danielovi@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 01:46:03 -0000

Spanish/Espa�ol
Primer aniversario de la provincia Argentina.

Salvete omnes
El 5 de Diciembre se cumple el primer aniversario de la provincia
Argentina, y quisiera hacer un resumen de lo sucedido en el a�o
transcurrido.
En el momento de su creaci�n por el senado novaromano �ramos 7
ciudadanos novaromanos argentinos. Hoy su poblaci�n aument� a quince.
Cuando asum� mi cargo de propraetor, mis primeras acciones fueron
crear la lista y el sitio oficiales provinciales (
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina , y
http://argentina.novaroma.org ). Todo esto cre� la base para el
crecimiento provincial. Luego, unos meses despu�s tuvimos nuestro
primer chat provincial, al cual le sigui� otro para finalmente tener
nuestro encuentro "cara a cara" en el mes de Julio. A partir de
entonces han continuado los encuentros hasta el d�a de hoy.
Debo agradecer en especial a todos los que han participado en los
chats y en los encuentros, porque en definitiva gracias a ellos y su
buena voluntad la actividad provincial es posible. Ellos han
difundido a Nova Roma entre sus amigos, lo cual permiti� el
crecimiento de nuestra provincia. En mi caso en particular he puesto
un anuncio en castellano sobre Nova Roma y la provincia Argentina en
mi p�gina personal ( http://ar.geocities.com/danielovi ). Adem�s,
uno de los nuevos ciudadanos provino de mi grupo hispanoparlante
dedicado al mundo antiguo.
As� que el pr�ximo Mi�rcoles ser� un d�a para celebrar en nuestra
provincia.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae

English/Ingl�s
First anniversary of provincia Argentina.

Salvete omnes.
On December the 5th provincia Argentina will be one year old , and I
wish to make a summary of what happened during this year.
At the moment of its creation by the Senate of Nova Roma we were 7
citizens in our province. Now we are 15.
When I took office as propraetor, my first actions were creating the
oficial provincial mailing list and website (
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina , y
http://argentina.novaroma.org ) .
All these created the base for the provincial growth. A few months
later we held our first provincial meeting, which was followed by a
second one, until finally we had our first face to face meeting.
Since then the meetings continued until today.
I must thank specially to those all citizens who participated in the
chats and face to face meetings, because thanks to them and their
good will, the provincial activity is possible. They helped with the
diffusion of Nova Roma among their friends, which helped to the
growth of our province. In my own case, I wrote an announcement in
spanish about Nova Roma and the provincia Argentina in my own
personal site ( http://ar.geocities.com/danielovi ). Besides, one
of the new citizens came from my own spanish speaking group dedicated
to the ancient world.
So next Wednesday will be a day for celebrating in my province.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Bona Dea
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 01:44:05 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, antoniuscorvusseptimius@-------- wrote:
> The Roman earth and fertility goddess who was worshipped exclusevly
by
> women. Do we have anyone who has offered rites to her?
>
> Dii te ament, A. Corvus Septimius

Yes, my wife, Patricia Cassia, has done Bona Dea rites with woman
friends for the past three years. I of course have no clue about the
details - I get to go visit friends for that evening.

If there are any female Citizens interested in participating this
year, or who would like to organize their own Bona Dea rites, feel
free to email her at: jane@--------

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] First anniversary provincia Argentina Sp./Eng.
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 03 Dec 2001 21:21:50 -0500

Salve Lucius Pompeius,

Congratulations on your one year anniversary of your province! It's
wonderful that you are able to arrange regular meetings. Impressive work,
your province is lucky you have you citizen! May the Gods continue to bless
your province with prosperity and growth!

Vale,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

>Lucius Pompeius Octavianus at danielovi@-------- wrote:
>
> On December the 5th provincia Argentina will be one year old , and I
> wish to make a summary of what happened during this year.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 03 Dec 2001 19:08:40 -0800

Avete Omnes,

I am very disappointed in seeing this announcement. It has been my
pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.

I have complete faith and confidence in my former colleague. When I am
elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius as my accensus. I will rely
on his experience and judgment.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Candidate for Consul

Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
>
> Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my Consular
> Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has
> failed to
> respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year. I do
> not
> want the record to show that he held the post for the duration of my
> term of
> office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 22:36:56 -0500

No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless man to
help him.

Go figure.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix [mailto:alexious@--------]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:09 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
>
>
> Avete Omnes,
>
> I am very disappointed in seeing this announcement. It has been my
> pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.
>
> I have complete faith and confidence in my former colleague. When I am
> elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius as my accensus. I will rely
> on his experience and judgment.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Candidate for Consul
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
> >
> > Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my Consular
> > Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has
> > failed to
> > respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year. I do
> > not
> > want the record to show that he held the post for the duration of my
> > term of
> > office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> > Consul
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus_ Stop please
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 22:59:16 EST

In a message dated 12/3/01 10:40:23 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
germanicus@-------- writes:

> Go figure.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
>

Good members of NR,
this is unbefitting the list and I for one ask.. no beg you to not do this
here and not right now!

Prima Fabia Drusila
benificta
in servce to my beloved Nova Roma and its people.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus_ Stop please
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:15:38 -0500

Salve;

Apparently personal opinions are now considered inappropriate here. How
distressing.

I, as Consul, hereby grant you your wish, Drusila.

You will not hear anything more from me on this subject. Or any other, for
that matter, save my farewell address; look for it December 31st. Until then
I will not be checking any email sent to my novaroma.org address, nor
sending anything therefrom.

My Consular colleague, Marcus Cassius Julianus, will be handling public
announcements relating to the elections from here on out. My mouth is shut.
I'm sure many will find that a welcome thing, including many former friends.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul, Senator, Augur, Fetialis, Paterfamilias, Founder

> -----Original Message-----
> From: asseri@-------- [mailto:asseri@--------]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:59 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus_ Stop please
>
>
> In a message dated 12/3/01 10:40:23 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> germanicus@-------- writes:
>
>
> > Go figure.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> > Consul
> >
> >
>
> Good members of NR,
> this is unbefitting the list and I for one ask.. no beg you to
> not do this
> here and not right now!
>
> Prima Fabia Drusila
> benificta
> in servce to my beloved Nova Roma and its people.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"Gaius Cornelius Publicus" <gaius-cornelius-publicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 22:02:43 -0800

as sayeth caesar...'tis the way of primates!!

but then so is bringing public ones opinions that likely should remain
private? I don't know what would cause such a statement, and then again I
could probably care less, however the act lacks a certain...what do you call
it? virtue?

Well, if history serves replying to this will have my email account on the
bounce list for the nooz group! :-)

Publicus

-----Original Message-----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@-------->
To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Date: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus

>No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless man to
>help him.
>
>Go figure.
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix [mailto:alexious@--------]
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:09 PM
>> To: novaroma@--------
>> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
>>
>>
>> Avete Omnes,
>>
>> I am very disappointed in seeing this announcement. It has been my
>> pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.
>>
>> I have complete faith and confidence in my former colleague. When I am
>> elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius as my accensus. I will rely
>> on his experience and judgment.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>> Candidate for Consul
>>
>> Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>> >
>> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
>> >
>> > Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my Consular
>> > Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has
>> > failed to
>> > respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year. I do
>> > not
>> > want the record to show that he held the post for the duration of my
>> > term of
>> > office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
>> >
>> > Valete,
>> >
>> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>> > Consul
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> > ADVERTISEMENT
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Lex Vedia de Oratio: Nonne
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 02:09:55 EST

Salvete!
People of Rome, you are the ones who will make the choice here. You have
heard arguments
pro & con for the Lex Vedia de Oratio by our leading citizens. It will now
in your capable hands...execute your francise, vote on what outcome you want
to see occur.
Valete!
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Losing a Friend
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 02:50:10 -0500 (EST)

Lucia Ambrosia Valeria;

Mistress;

My post to you is not advice, as I do not engage in such. Nor is it a
post directed to make you change your mind as no-one knows what is
needed personnally better than the individual being considered.
Further, it is not a post to direct you to alternatives, as I do not
have that right.

My purpose is to tell you a story of a gentleman friend of mine who
decided to leave Nova Roma, for a pretty good reason, in his view. He
had been harshly treated, and as a prideful man was convinced that he
deserved better. Thus, he was determined in his course and posted his
intent to the Main List. After doing so, he found that he missed the
comaradery of NR, but was determined that his course was the best for
him.

Then came the first message that appealed to him in the name of
friendship not to leae Nova Roma, followed by another, and another and
another. These messages all claimed a friendship that he had no idea
was so strong as to elicit messages of regret and requests for
re-consideration from people he had never met.
My friend is not a clever man, but at last he realized that he was in
the act of severing friendships with people whom he really valued, and
who valued him in return. Well, my friend, as I have said, is not very
clever, but he does know who a friend is and what that means both to
himslf and to the other person. He realized the selfishness of what he
was about to do, and that day upon his realization, he retracted his
statement, and retained his citizenship, overcoming his senseof outrage,
with the balm of friendship expressed. Some of those friends are still
here, and are still with him, and athough he has never seen some of
them, they are as good a friends as he has in the world.

My particular friend, of whom I relate this story, has confided in me,
that he never realized the strength of the friendship of those whom had
appealed to him, who had taken the time and effort to let him know thier
feelings about him, to risk being rebuffed by a person that they had
never seen, and he could not leave them with any honor. My friend and I
are very close, and I know him very well. Friends to him are a
particular treasure, and are to be retained if at all possible.

I just thought that you might be interested in the story.

Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Nationalism...choices
From:	"Matthias Stappert" <3s@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:12:47 -0000

Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Citizens, I�m not surprised to hear such a statement by Praetor
Quintus Fabius Maximus.

He uses all arguments we heared before again. Just to keep them in
mind. And so I must reply to him, to keep the opposing arguments in
mind.

Nobody really argued that the citizens should vote for me because I�m
German. The real argument was: It�s a true sign of supranationalism
and a symbol for the global nature of our roman republic, to have
magistrates from all over the world. I admit that some formulations
used by Diana Meridia Aurelia can be understood in the wrong way, of
course. But this is truly not the intention she had.

The truth is that I have good qualifications for the office of Censor.
I have long years experiences in public administration, I�m qualified
in computers and databases, I�m qualified in managing people. Surely
my opponent is not far less qualified, especially in managing
databases. Since we are both head-by-head in our personal
qualifications, and because I raised as homo novus in the ranks of the
Cursus Honorum, holding an office with imperium this year, my
opponents are forced to switch to other, far more personal arguments.
They accuse me to be a nationalist.

All citizens knowing me know that this is not the truth. I�m in
contact with many citizens all over the world, also in the american
and canadian provinces of our Res Publica. All citizens knowing me
must admit that there is nothing nationalistic in my behaviour and in
my words. If this would be the case, would I have earned endorsements
by citizens, even Senators, from that provinces?

In one point my opponents are right, and I concur with them in this
case: We are a global operating micronation. Wether we are Americans,
Canadians, Australians, Hungarians, Germans, Austrians and so on, we
all belong to the same true roman republic. I always tried to show
this by my work and my personal behaviour. Please decide by yourself
whether I did or not.

The upcoming election is not a decision between Americans and
Euroopeans. The upcoming election is a decision about the government
next year. In this government will work citizens from all over the
world. We have to work together in this government, for the future of
our Res Publica, bound together by the will of the people, the Religio
Romana and our common sense of Romanitas, not less, not more.

Accusing me to be a nationalist is nothing more than the attempt to
destruct one more candidate in the forum. It�s an attempt to attack
my personal honor directly. I�m not disappointed about these attacks,
because I awaited them.

Citizens, decide by yourself. Decide by my behaviour and my
qualifications, you can review them at
www.diocletian.de/elect/diocletianus/.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Governor of Germania
Candidate for Censor

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"Matthias Stappert" <3s@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:42:36 -0000

Salvete again, Quirites!

Decius Iunius Palladius is a honourable man, Consular and Senator. he
served our Republic well and earned much merits.

What is the real reason for his dismissal? I cannot believe that he
didn�t his work. It seems not only to me he is dismissed because he
endorsed me and not Flavius Vedius Germanicus� wife Priscilla Vedia
Serena in the forum.

To accuse Senator Decius Iunius Palladius and Censor Lucius Cornelius
Sulla to be useless is far more ridiculous.

Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla announced appointment shows a real sense
of honor.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Candidate for Censor

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless
man to
> help him.
>
> Go figure.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla F-------- [mailto:al--------us@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:09 PM
> > To: novaroma@--------
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
> >
> >
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > I am very disappointed in seeing this announcement. It has been
my
> > pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius Iunius Palladius
Invictus.
> >
> > I have complete faith and confidence in my former colleague. When
I am
> > elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius as my accensus. I
will rely
> > on his experience and judgment.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Candidate for Consul
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> > >
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my
Consular
> > > Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has
> > > failed to
> > > respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year.
I do
> > > not
> > > want the record to show that he held the post for the duration
of my
> > > term of
> > > office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> > > Consul
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: First anniversary provincia Argentina Sp./Eng.
From:	"Matthias Stappert" <3s@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:49:39 -0000

Salve, hon. Propraetor Argentinae,
Salvete, citizens in Argentina.

My heartful congratulations for your province�s anniversary! In my
opinion you made a considerable good job during the year. Argentina is
one of the most prospectiv provinces in our global micronation, and I
heartly hope that you will continue your good work, together with all
Romans living in Argentina, for the future of Nova Roma.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Governor of Germania

--- In novaroma@--------, "Daniel" <danielovi@--------> wrote:
> Spanish/Espa�ol
> Primer aniversario de la provincia Argentina.
>
> Salvete omnes
> El 5 de Diciembre se cumple el primer aniversario de la provincia
> Argentina, y quisiera hacer un resumen de lo sucedido en el a�o
> transcurrido.
> En el momento de su creaci�n por el senado novaromano �ramos 7
> ciudadanos novaromanos argentinos. Hoy su poblaci�n aument� a
quince.
> Cuando asum� mi cargo de propraetor, mis primeras acciones fueron
> crear la lista y el sitio oficiales provinciales (
> http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina , y
> http://argentina.novaroma.org ). Todo esto cre� la base para el
> crecimiento provincial. Luego, unos meses despu�s tuvimos nuestro
> primer chat provincial, al cual le sigui� otro para finalmente tener
> nuestro encuentro "cara a cara" en el mes de Julio. A partir de
> entonces han continuado los encuentros hasta el d�a de hoy.
> Debo agradecer en especial a todos los que han participado en los
> chats y en los encuentros, porque en definitiva gracias a ellos y su
> buena voluntad la actividad provincial es posible. Ellos han
> difundido a Nova Roma entre sus amigos, lo cual permiti� el
> crecimiento de nuestra provincia. En mi caso en particular he puesto
> un anuncio en castellano sobre Nova Roma y la provincia Argentina en
> mi p�gina personal ( http://ar.geocities.com/danielovi ). Adem�s,
> uno de los nuevos ciudadanos provino de mi grupo hispanoparlante
> dedicado al mundo antiguo.
> As� que el pr�ximo Mi�rcoles ser� un d�a para celebrar en nuestra
> provincia.
> Valete bene
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Propraetor provincialis Argentinae
>
> English/Ingl�s
> First anniversary of provincia Argentina.
>
> Salvete omnes.
> On December the 5th provincia Argentina will be one year old , and I
> wish to make a summary of what happened during this year.
> At the moment of its creation by the Senate of Nova Roma we were 7
> citizens in our province. Now we are 15.
> When I took office as propraetor, my first actions were creating
the
> oficial provincial mailing list and website (
> http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina , y
> http://argentina.novaroma.org ) .
> All these created the base for the provincial growth. A few months
> later we held our first provincial meeting, which was followed by a
> second one, until finally we had our first face to face meeting.
> Since then the meetings continued until today.
> I must thank specially to those all citizens who participated in the
> chats and face to face meetings, because thanks to them and their
> good will, the provincial activity is possible. They helped with the
> diffusion of Nova Roma among their friends, which helped to the
> growth of our province. In my own case, I wrote an announcement in
> spanish about Nova Roma and the provincia Argentina in my own
> personal site ( http://ar.geocities.com/danielovi ). Besides, one
> of the new citizens came from my own spanish speaking group
dedicated
> to the ancient world.
> So next Wednesday will be a day for celebrating in my province.
> Valete bene
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Propraetor provincialis Argentinae


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Nationalism...choices
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 06:17:12 EST

In a message dated 12/4/01 12:14:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, 3s@--------
writes:

>
> Citizens, I�m not surprised to hear such a statement by Praetor
> Quintus Fabius Maximus.
>
Well Citizens, I�m sure as Hades surprised to hear such a statement by
Praetor
Caius Flavius Diocletianus

I'm sure Flavius would make a fine censor. He'd make a fine censor even if
he lived in Hong Kong. And I see now what he was objecting to. I used the
word German
in my statement. And Flavius is <gasp> German. He added 2+2 and came up with
5. Opps...That stiff German pride.
So OK, that was a bad example. I'll try and say what I meant the first time.
Romans vote not for a person from your macronation just because he or she is
FROM your macronation. Vote instead for the person you feel will do the job
the best. If he or she happens to be from your macronation as well then
bully for you. You get a bonus. But to vote in a individual just because
they are from your neck of the woods, or for the sake of change, is not using
your vote very cleverly. Vote for the performance, not for the impact.
Thank you again for listening.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:36:08 -0000

To publicly impugn the dignatas of any citizen, whatever the motive, is an act unbeffiting a consul of Roma. To impugn the dignitas of such upstanding and loyal citizens of NR as Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla is an act unbeffiting a citizen of NR. I consider the reputation of both men capable of withstanding what is nothing more than political and personal abuse.

Valete

Decimus Iunius Silanus.

> Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
>
> Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my Consular
> Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has failed to
> respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year. I do not
> want the record to show that he held the post for the duration of my term of
> office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul

> No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless man to
> help him.
>
> Go figure.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	"Mike Rasschaert" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:55:23 -0000

Salvete omni
> I would like to recommend T. Apollonius Cicatrix to all of you for
the post of Aedilis Plebis. He's a marvelous man with democratic
ideas. His interests in Roman society are huge and his university
studies are about the Roman Civilisation. He's a loyal man, and has
been always a huge support to help everybody with new ideas in this
society. He won't disappoint any of you.
I agree and i have already said this that Tiberius Apollonius
Cicatrix should be the Aedilis Plebis and everybody in the gens
Apollonii hope somehow that Cicactrix as Draco get to be Aedilis
Plebis. He's loyal and brings much to the Nova Roma like M.
Apollonius Formusanus. There are alot of loyal and trustworthy and
decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q. Fabius Maximus and
there is another person, a female who runs for praetor. These are
more of the backstabbing, lying people who do nothing but supporting
the oligarchy are really corrupt. This isn't just me who thinks this
way. There are alot more people and i'm not just talking about the
gens Apollonii who are against these people coming back to power agin
for another year. Think wisely and don't participate in favoritism
and the other stuff that will eventually destory the Republic of Nova
Roma.
Valete optimi
Sokarus Apollonius Callias

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Subject:	Re: Demographics Correction Re: [novaroma] Languages
From:	Lindsay Penner <lrpenner@-------->
Date:	Mon, 03 Dec 2001 16:47:13 MST

Salvete,

> � I ommitted 17 Canadian citizens on the list of English speakers, since it
> is a bilingual country, with French as a minority language. I don't exactly
> know how many Canadian francophones are citizens in NR, so this is only a
> hypothetical number.

I'm a Canadian citizen. I speak English at home, but I've spoken French for
the vast majority of my life, and I'm equally comfortable (and proficient) in
either. If you want to be absolutely technical, I learned English before
French, so I'd be an anglophone. But to me, the choice between the two is
essentially irrelevant.

Valete,
Maia Vipsania Serena


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Nationalism...choices
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:08:58 -0800 (PST)

Ave,
I understand that "macronational squabbling" maybe
a problem or issue that needs to be addressed.
However I think it will be present at all times
because when it comes to elections (for example) you
get a kind of stick with your own kind effect (that is
not implying that there is discrimination or sense of
racism or ethnic prejudice in Nova Roma). However you
cannot just label it as being bad cause sometimes it
isn't but it can be bad. There is a better chance of
it occuring within Nova Roma since rome did not have
political parties per se so you won't have people
voting for a candidate aligned with a particular party
which they give allegiance but it can turn into voting
for a particular candidate from a particular region.
Plus I also think that if you have candidates from
particular regions the voters of those regions MAY
think like that candidate and desire the same end for
whatever and it enforces that regionalism. So people
within Nova Roma may view it as problematic but it (IN
MY OPINION) is unavoidable.
vale,
Quintus Cornelius Caesar

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://shopping.yahoo.com


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Marcus=20Minicius=20Rufus?= <xperiko@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:01:52 +0100 (CET)

--- Matthias Stappert <3s@--------> escribi�:
<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
Salvete again, Quirites! 
 
Decius Iunius Palladius is a honourable man, Consular
and Senator. he 
served our Republic well and earned much merits. 
 
What is the real reason for his dismissal? I cannot
believe that he 
didn�t his work. It seems not only to me he is
dismissed because he 
endorsed me and not Flavius Vedius Germanicus� wife
Priscilla Vedia 
Serena in the forum. 

So you have the right to think that Germanicus is
wrong in his statementes, but Germanicus can't express
his feelings about someone's job. Is it fair? I don't
think so.

Let me say something. Some of us have endorsed
different candidates in the past days, and no one has
complained about it. But it seems perfectly right for
me to express a negative opinion about somebody if you
think he/she does not deserve the election. Germanicus
mail is a hint: Don't vote him. He may be a nice
person but can't stand for a public position.

 
To accuse Senator Decius Iunius Palladius and Censor
Lucius Cornelius 
Sulla to be useless is far more ridiculous. 

Ridiculous? I would eventually use the word "wrong",
but it seems to me you are extremelly rude to
Germanicus.

Germanicus has talked objectivily about someone's
duties, but you are making it personal.

 
Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla announced appointment
shows a real sense 
of honor. 

And your post shows absence of sense of shame and
respect. I will accept any critic on Germanicus' job,
but attacks likes this one stink.

Bene Valete

Marcus Minicius Rufus

 
Valete 
Caius Flavius Diocletianus 
Praetor, Senator 
Candidate for Censor 
 
--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius
Germa--------s" <germa--------s@--------> 
wrote: 
> No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man
brings another useless 
man to 
> help him. 
> 
> Go figure. 
> 
> Vale, 
> 
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus, 
> Consul 
> 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
[mailto:al--------us@--------] 
> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:09 PM 
> > To: novaroma@-------- 
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum:
Accensus 
> > 
> > 
> > Avete Omnes, 
> > 
> > I am very disappointed in seeing this
announcement. It has been 
my 
> > pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius
Iunius Palladius 
Invictus. 
> > 
> > I have complete faith and confidence in my
former colleague. When 
I am 
> > elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius
as my accensus. I 
will rely 
> > on his experience and judgment. 
> > 
> > Respectfully, 
> > 
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix 
> > Candidate for Consul 
> > 
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote: 
> > > 
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis
S.P.D. 
> > > 
> > > Let it be known that Decius Iunius
Palladius is no longer my 
Consular 
> > > Accensus. His performance in the job
has been abysmal and he has 
> > > failed to 
> > > respond to requests for assistance or
work throughout the year. 
I do 
> > > not 
> > > want the record to show that he held
the post for the duration 
of my 
> > > term of 
> > > office, as he has not held it in spirit
since March. 
> > > 
> > > Valete, 
> > > 
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus, 
> > > Consul 
> > > 
> >
>


Subject:	Re: Re: Demographics Correction Re: [novaroma] Languages
From:	"Marcus Apollonius" <m_apollonius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:52:08 +0100

Salve,

There is a respectable number of not anglophonic people in NR. Why does everyone write his messenges in English? Because, what we all know, most anglophonic people don't know a second language (very well). It's logic that we adapt ourselves to English majority here in NR, and make ourselves understandable to the other non-anglophonic people by using a world language: English.

But the non-anglophonic people shouldn't be forgotten by the many americans in NR. And our texts are not in perfect English, so we shouldn't be misunderstood. And the USA isn't the "belly-button" of the world, neither is the UK or Belgium. Maybe a little more understanding here would lighten things up.

With all respect,

Marcus Aplollonius Tacitus

Get Your Free E-mail at http://www.blackspirit.yucom.be
________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 5 Dec 2001 00:48:22 +1100 (EST)

Salvete omnes et Sokarus Apollonius,

Before I start, I would just like to say that this has
nothing to do with the fact that I am running for the
same position (this is not a paid political
announcemnt:-) ).

I would ask you to conduct yourself with more dignitas
than to attack your elders and seniors such as Sulla
and Fabius. And I happen to feel insulted at your
reference to a female running as a candidate for
praetor being backstabbing and lying, as I happen to
count her among my friends and perhaps the most decent
person I have met during my tenure in the republic. If
you have these opinions, please keep them to yourself
and off the main list. I'm sure there are more
constructive things that could be posted here.

And as for the oligarch statement...leave it be
Sokarus. It's not worth the trouble it will inevitably
bring, and is just another attempt to aggrivate people
who don't need it during this period. If you are going
to go about this, please keep it somewhere were we
don't have to listen to you mouthing off at people.
And before I hear you, or even hear you contemplate,
calling me a "lackey of the oligarchic devils" and the
like, I will tell you that in Nova Roma I consider
myself neutral to all, and that all are amicable
unless proven otherwise. I do not mean this as an
insult to those you mention as oligarchs, but those
who know me know what I mean.

My mother always had a saying...well, actually she had
two sayings, the first being "Sit down, shut up, hold
on!":-) and the second being "If you have nothing nice
to say about someone...keep it to yourself. No-one
likes a spiteful man".

I bid you good day.

Valete bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Candidate Aedilis Plebis

--- Mike Rasschaert <hadescallias@--------> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
Salvete omni 
> I would like to recommend T. Apollonius Cicatrix
to all of you for 
the post of Aedilis Plebis. He's a marvelous man with
democratic 
ideas. His interests in Roman society are huge and his
university 
studies are about the Roman Civilisation. He's a loyal
man, and has 
been always a huge support to help everybody with new
ideas in this 
society. He won't disappoint any of you. 
I agree and i have already said this that Tiberius
Apollonius 
Cicatrix should be the Aedilis Plebis and everybody in
the gens 
Apollonii hope somehow that Cicactrix as Draco get to
be Aedilis 
Plebis. He's loyal and brings much to the Nova Roma
like M. 
Apollonius Formusanus. There are alot of loyal and
trustworthy and 
decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q.
Fabius Maximus and 
there is another person, a female who runs for
praetor. These are 
more of the backstabbing, lying people who do nothing
but supporting 
the oligarchy are really corrupt. This isn't just me
who thinks this 
way. There are alot more people and i'm not just
talking about the 
gens Apollonii who are against these people coming
back to power agin 
for another year. Think wisely and don't participate
in favoritism 
and the other stuff that will eventually destory the
Republic of Nova 
Roma. 
Valete optimi 
Sokarus Apollonius Callias 
 
</tt>

 
<tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms
of Service</a>.</tt>


</body></html>

http://shopping.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Shopping
- Get organised for Christmas early this year!


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 14:32:25 -0000

---
Salve:

Honoured Consul, this statement is reprehensible. Nobody has the right
to call others useless, and as I am sure you are aware, this is rather
contrary to the list guidelines, re criticizing the idea and not the
poster, and it is rather unbetting and unvirtuous coming from anyone,
let alone the Pater of Res Publica Nova Roma.

I feel very sorry for Priscilla Vedia.

I am not sure exactly *sure* what is bothering you, but in your quest
for personal vengeance, which is what you have displayed this past
evening in your communication, you have run grave risk in embarrassing
a candidate for two positions.

Remember how your rash actions affect your loved ones, if you please.

And, I think you owe Lucius Cornelius Sulla and D. Palladius Invictius
public apologies. And while you are at it sir, apologize to your wife.

Shame on you! What could possibly be so all powerfully important that
you would stoop to this behaviour?

Vale,
Pompeia Cornelia

In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless
man to
> help him.
>
> Go figure.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla F-------- [mailto:al--------us@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:09 PM
> > To: novaroma@--------
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
> >
> >
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > I am very disappointed in seeing this announcement. It has been
my
> > pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius Iunius Palladius
Invictus.
> >
> > I have complete faith and confidence in my former colleague. When
I am
> > elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius as my accensus. I
will rely
> > on his experience and judgment.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Candidate for Consul
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> > >
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my
Consular
> > > Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has
> > > failed to
> > > respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year.
I do
> > > not
> > > want the record to show that he held the post for the duration
of my
> > > term of
> > > office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> > > Consul
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:41:16 -0600 (CST)

Salve Gai Senti,

> Salvete omnes et Sokarus Apollonius,
>
> I would ask you to conduct yourself with more dignitas
> than to attack your elders and seniors such as Sulla
> and Fabius.

I'm afraid it's hopeless. "Sokarus" (actually Tiberius Apollonius Callias)
was crude and immature when he first appeared on this list, and he
hasn't changed in the slightest. He has contributed absolutely nothing
to Nova Roma, yet takes every opportunity to insult those who have.

> And I happen to feel insulted at your reference to a female running as a
> candidate for praetor being backstabbing and lying, as I happen to
> count her among my friends and perhaps the most decent person I have
> met during my tenure in the republic.

I fully agree. Pompeia Cornelia is one of the most good and honorable
people here.

Vale, Octavius.
Candidate for Consul.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nationalism
From:	"Diana Hartig" <dhartig@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:14:04 +0100

Salvete Quinte Fabi Maxime et Omnes,

please allow me a few comments,

> I'm sure Flavius would make a fine censor.
> He'd make a fine censor even if he lived in Hong Kong.

Indeed he would; I am so glad you see this, Quinte Fabi, especially as we
have now decided - have we not ? - that location is not/should not be an
issue.

> And I see now what he was objecting to.
> I used the word German in my statement.

Now, now - what a term to sneak its way into your, I doubt not, well-meaning
and wise words.

> And Flavius is <gasp> German.

And you, honored Praetor, if I may say so - are <gasp> American. Anything
wrong with that ? I thought we had settled this ?

> Opps...That stiff German pride.

With you having served as the non-German senior colleague to Praetor
Diocletianus for an entire year I suppose we can trust your judgement ?!

> I'll try and say what I meant the first time.
> Romans vote not for a person from your macronation just
> because he or she is FROM your macronation. Vote instead
> for the person you feel will do the job the best.
> If he or she happens to be from your macronation as
> well then bully for you. You get a bonus. But to
> vote in a individual just because they are from your
> neck of the woods, or for the sake of change, is not
> using your vote very cleverly. Vote for the performance,
> not for the impact.

I applaud your return to reason and fairness, Quinte Fabi. You had me worry
for a moment.

With my profound respects,

Optime vale,
Diana Meridia Aurelia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:36:33 -0600 (CST)

Salve Marce Minici,

>> Decius Iunius Palladius is a honourable man, Consular
>> and Senator. he served our Republic well and earned much merits.
>>
>> What is the real reason for his dismissal? I cannot believe that he
>> didn't his work. It seems not only to me he is dismissed because he
>> endorsed me and not Flavius Vedius Germanicus' wife
>> Priscilla Vedia Serena in the forum.
>
> So you have the right to think that Germanicus is
> wrong in his statementes, but Germanicus can't express
> his feelings about someone's job. Is it fair? I don't
> think so.

Caius Flavius made no attempt to prevent Consul Germanicus from expressing
anything. He stated his disagreement with it, and speculated on a possible
motive for the original posting. What is wrong with that?

> But it seems perfectly right for me to express a negative opinion
> about somebody

Yes, it is. And it is perfectly right for those who respect that person
to refute that opinion, and to express their negative opinions of the
one who began the negativity.

> if you think he/she does not deserve the election. Germanicus
> mail is a hint: Don't vote him. He may be a nice
> person but can't stand for a public position.

Actually, Decius Iunius Palladius is not running for any office at all. The
post that started all of this was not an opinion on a candidate; it was
an opinion about someone who has not been in the public eye during this
campaign.

> Ridiculous? I would eventually use the word "wrong",
> but it seems to me you are extremelly rude to
> Germanicus.

Merely by calling a wrong opinion "ridiculous"?

> And your post shows absence of sense of shame and
> respect. I will accept any critic on Germanicus' job,
> but attacks likes this one stink.

This is absurd. Caius Flavius Diocletianus has come to the defense
of one who was maligned without provocation. Any "attack" he made
was extremely mild, and was certainly warranted by the situation.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	radams36@--------
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 18:33:07 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Marcus Minicius Rufus <xperiko@--------> wrote:
> --- Matt-------- Stappert <3s@--------> escribi�:
> <HR>
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> Salvete again, Quirites! 
> 
> Decius Iunius Palladius is a honourable man, Consular
> and Senator. he 
> served our Republic well and earned much merits. 
> 
> What is the real reason for his dismissal? I cannot
> believe that he 
> didn�t his work. It seems not only to me he is
> dismissed because he 
> endorsed me and not Flavius Vedius Germanicus� wife
> Priscilla Vedia 
> Serena in the forum. 
>
> So you have the right to think that Germanicus is
> wrong in his statementes, but Germanicus can't express
> his feelings about someone's job. Is it fair? I don't
> think so.

I don't know all the details and will not weigh in on the rightness
or wrongness of Palladius's dismissal, but I will weigh in that
Germanicus's description of why Palladius was dismissed is woefully
inadequate. Better that he had left the issue a private one
altogether, or brought forth more than just the vague reference
to 'abysmal performance'. With all due respect to Germanicus, if the
communication is directed towards the main list, then listers have
every right to call it into question. If you care to clarify
Palladius's inadequacies, I for one will listen with an open mind.
>
>
> 
> To accuse Senator Decius Iunius Palladius and Censor
> Lucius Cornelius 
> Sulla to be useless is far more ridiculous. 
>
> Ridiculous? I would eventually use the word "wrong",
> but it seems to me you are extremelly rude to
> Germanicus.

I consider 'ridiculous' far too mild - Sulla has proven time and time
again to be both a fine gentleman and a credit to Nova Roma. To call
him 'useless' is far beyond 'ridiculous'.

>
> Germanicus has talked objectivily about someone's
> duties, but you are making it personal.

As a friend to Sulla (who certainly does not need my inadequate
defense), I must take extreme issue with this. Germanicus's
references to Sulla as 'useless' were insulting, uncalled for, and
inappropriate to this forum. Sulla merely disagreed with Germanicus's
assessment of Palladius's worth - Germanicus was the first to become
rude and to abandon objectivity. I, for one, am compelled to call for
Germanicus to apologize to Sulla, who has earned the friendship of
both myself and many other listers with his diligence, patience,
helful demeanor, and courteous attitude, and certainly did not earn a
personal attack by virtue of disagreeing with Germanicus over
Palladius's worth.

>
> 
> Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla announced appointment
> shows a real sense 
> of honor. 
>
> And your post shows absence of sense of shame and
> respect. I will accept any critic on Germanicus' job,
> but attacks likes this one stink.

No more than Germanicus's unseemly rude attacks on Sulla, which you
yourself quoted below. I don't know the background on whatever
personal vendettas may be underlying all this, and don't really care.
Insults and personal attacks belittle the attacker far more than the
victim. Furthermore, freedom of speech is a hallmark of this forum,
but that freedom of speech most certainly includes the right to
object to someone else's comments. Matthias's post did not seem
overly harsh, insulting, or judgmental to me.

Valete,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus

>
> 
> Valete 
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus 
> Praetor, Senator 
> Candidate for Censor 
> 
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius

> Germa--------s" germa--------s@-------- > wrote: 
> > No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man
> brings another useless 
> man to 
> > help him. 
> > 
> > Go figure.


Subject:	[novaroma] College Pontificium decisions
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:04:28 -0500

Ex Domo Pontifex Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD

On behalf of Pontifex Maximus Marcus Cassius Iulianus, who is experiencing technical difficulties, I make the following announcement. Each item below was passed/approved on 25 Nov 2001
(ante diem VII Kal. DECEMBRIS MMDCCLIV a.u.c.)

QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO
QUIRITIBVS

The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to consider the following item,
the decision was that the following were approved.

ITEM I - LITURGICAL LANGUAGE DECRETUM

The Collegium Pontificum hereby officially approves Latin as
the official Liturgical Language of the Religio Romana within
Nova Roma. We recommend that official rites be done in Latin
whenever possible, and also be recorded in Latin for posterity.

We officially state that the adoption of Latin as official
Liturgical language does *not* constitute disapproval of public
or private rites being done in other world languages to
facilitate ease and understandability. Citizens are free to use
other languages in addition to or in place of Latin when
necessary, even as we recognize Latin as the ancient Language
which was used before the Gods, and therefore the most
traditional language within the Religio Romana.

ITEM II - DECRETUM DE RATIONE PONTIFICUM COLLEGII

In accordance with paragraph VI.1. of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, the Decretum De Ratione Pontificum Collegii is hereby
enacted to set forth the rules and procedures for discussion and
the taking of votes in the collegium pontificum.

I. Seniority within the Collegium Pontificum respects the
following decreasing order:

a) The rex and regina sacrorum, the flamen maiores, the pontifex
maximus, the other pontifices,the sacerdotes vestales, and the
flamen minores (in that order);

b) Ties in seniority shall be decided in favor of those who have
served in their position the longest;

c) Further ties in seniority shall be decided in favor of those
who are older.

II. Any member of the collegium pontificum may, at his
discretion, introduce a topic for discussion by sharing it with
the rest of the collegium. Such discussion is to be encouraged,
but should not be mistaken for the formal process of calling for
a vote on a given issue, which may only be done after the
collegium has been convened for such a purpose, and by
procedures as described below.

III. Any member of the collegium pontificum may convene the
collegium pontificum. Convening the collegium pontificum is done
by informing all of the members of the collegium no less than
twenty- four hours prior to the session being formally opened.

A. The pontifex who convened the collegium pontificum then
formally opens the session presenting one or more matters for
the consideration of all members.

B. Once the matters for discussion have been presented, each of
the members of the collegium may, in turn, offer their opinions
thereon. The debate shall be limited to the members of the
collegium. The limit on the length of discussion shall be
defined by the pontifex who convened the collegium.

1. A pontifex who is unable to vote may give his proxy to
another pontifex,as long as such is done openly and before the
voting starts.

2. When debate is being conducted via means that allow real-time
communication (such as Internet chat, teleconferencing, or live
meeting), each member of the collegium shall be given the
opportunity to speak in order of seniority.

IV. Once each member of the collegium has been given the
opportunity to state his position on the issues under
discussion, the pontifex who convened the collegium pontificum
shall call the issue to a vote. Voting shall be done openly
before those privy to the debate, and shall be decided by
majority vote unless otherwise mandated. Only pontifices
(including the pontifex maximus) may vote. The method of
voting depends on the mode of communication:

A. When voting is being conducted via electronic mail, each
pontifex shall have forty-eight hours to cast his vote. Should
that time elapse, the pontiff shall be assumed to have
abrogated his right to vote on the issues at hand.

B. When voting is being conducted via means that allow real-time
communication, voting shall be done by oral statement for the
pontifices present in the session, or by writing on a tablet or
letter for those who are unable to speak or are absent. Each
pontifex shall be given the opportunity to vote in order of
seniority. In the case of letters and tablets, the pontifex who
convened the collegium pontificum will reads their content
respecting the order of seniority in the same way.

V. Once voting on the matters at hand is complete, the majority
of votes will decide the issue. The pontifex maximus shall
inform the SPQR about the outcome of the vote in the following
form:
"QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO
QUIRITIBVS The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to XXXXX,
the decision was that YYYYYY."

ITEM III

Patricia Cassia appointed
Minerva Templi Sacerdotes
(Priest of Minerva)

These should be posted to the Tabularium
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/pontifices/
As soon as possible!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:14:36 US/Central

Salve Sokare Apolloni

> I would like to recommend T. Apollonius Cicatrix to all of you for
> the post of Aedilis Plebis. He's a marvelous man with democratic
> ideas. His interests in Roman society are huge and his university
> studies are about the Roman Civilisation. He's a loyal man, and has
> been always a huge support to help everybody with new ideas in this
> society. He won't disappoint any of you.

I agree with you regarding Ti Apollonius Cicatrix' qualifications, and would be
quite glad to see him elected. It is unfortunate that you followed this
ringing endorsement with the following.

> There are alot of loyal and trustworthy and
> decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q. Fabius Maximus and
> there is another person, a female who runs for praetor. These are
> more of the backstabbing, lying people who do nothing but supporting
> the oligarchy are really corrupt.

While I, unlike many here, can understand why you might choose to characterize
Censor Cornelius and Praetor Fabius in such a manner--which is not to say that
I agree with such a characterization--I cannot in any way understand why you
would include Pompeia Cornelia with them. My honored opponent may not share
the same opinions as you, but she has been nothing but hard working,
forthright, and worthy of trust. The Res Publica has been lucky to have her
among its cives.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Digest No 1733 First anniversary provincia Argentina
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:18:47 -0500

Salvete, Quiritbus!

I wish to publicly thank Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Propraetor provincialis
Argentinae for his exemplary work and conduct since becoming a citizen. He
has shown how one can join Nova Roma and quietly work towards it's goals
while maintaining the virtues we supposedly promote. Thank you also,
Octavianus, for the post and it's translation.

Congratulations Propraetor Lucius Pompeius Octavianus on your
accomplishments!! and Thank you for your work, Di deaeque te ament!

Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 01:46:03 -0000
From: "Daniel" <danielovi@-------->
Subject: First anniversary provincia Argentina Sp./Eng.

Spanish/Espa�ol
Primer aniversario de la provincia Argentina.

Salvete omnes
El 5 de Diciembre se cumple el primer aniversario de la provincia
Argentina, y quisiera hacer un resumen de lo sucedido en el a�o
transcurrido.
En el momento de su creaci�n por el senado novaromano �ramos 7
ciudadanos novaromanos argentinos. Hoy su poblaci�n aument� a quince.
Cuando asum� mi cargo de propraetor, mis primeras acciones fueron
crear la lista y el sitio oficiales provinciales (
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina , y
http://argentina.novaroma.org ). Todo esto cre� la base para el
crecimiento provincial. Luego, unos meses despu�s tuvimos nuestro
primer chat provincial, al cual le sigui� otro para finalmente tener
nuestro encuentro "cara a cara" en el mes de Julio. A partir de
entonces han continuado los encuentros hasta el d�a de hoy.
Debo agradecer en especial a todos los que han participado en los
chats y en los encuentros, porque en definitiva gracias a ellos y su
buena voluntad la actividad provincial es posible. Ellos han
difundido a Nova Roma entre sus amigos, lo cual permiti� el
crecimiento de nuestra provincia. En mi caso en particular he puesto
un anuncio en castellano sobre Nova Roma y la provincia Argentina en
mi p�gina personal ( http://ar.geocities.com/danielovi ). Adem�s,
uno de los nuevos ciudadanos provino de mi grupo hispanoparlante
dedicado al mundo antiguo.
As� que el pr�ximo Mi�rcoles ser� un d�a para celebrar en nuestra
provincia.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae

English/Ingl�s
First anniversary of provincia Argentina.

Salvete omnes.
On December the 5th provincia Argentina will be one year old , and I
wish to make a summary of what happened during this year.
At the moment of its creation by the Senate of Nova Roma we were 7
citizens in our province. Now we are 15.
When I took office as propraetor, my first actions were creating the
oficial provincial mailing list and website (
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina , y
http://argentina.novaroma.org ) .
All these created the base for the provincial growth. A few months
later we held our first provincial meeting, which was followed by a
second one, until finally we had our first face to face meeting.
Since then the meetings continued until today.
I must thank specially to those all citizens who participated in the
chats and face to face meetings, because thanks to them and their
good will, the provincial activity is possible. They helped with the
diffusion of Nova Roma among their friends, which helped to the
growth of our province. In my own case, I wrote an announcement in
spanish about Nova Roma and the provincia Argentina in my own
personal site ( http://ar.geocities.com/danielovi ). Besides, one
of the new citizens came from my own spanish speaking group dedicated
to the ancient world.
So next Wednesday will be a day for celebrating in my province.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	"Mike Rasschaert" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:46:10 -0000

Salvete omni
I was actually talking of Priscilla Vedia and not Pompeia. I'll vote
expecialy those who run against him as i understand that Germanicus
got criticized for his posts because alot people can't stand
criticism. I'm 19years old and currently an artstudent. I have
devoted myself to the Religio. How on earth can i contribute while i
can really do nothing but sitting around? Hey, mayby i am immature,
mayby i'm not. You people will never know unless those who know me
and said to say, there aren't many cives in here that do. I just said
what i think of these candidates. You can attack me anyway on this
one but i'm a firm believer of freedom of speech wich include the
right to say what you want about something or someone.
Valete optimi
Sokarus Apollonius Callias


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:00:57 US/Central

Salvete Marce Minuci Rufe et omnes

> Ridiculous? I would eventually use the word "wrong",
> but it seems to me you are extremelly rude to
> Germanicus.

Ridiculous is exactly the word I would use. Both Lucius Cornelius (censor,
senator consularis, one-time praetor suffectus, one-time quaestor, etc.) and
Decius Iunius (senator consularis and quondam censor) have been substantially
more than useless to the Res Publica--and I say this as one who has violently
disagreed with each of these men on more than one occasion. While Decius
Iunius has been fairly inactive within the last year (I do not know anything
about his service, or possible lack thereof, to Consul Vedius), to call him a
useless man is spiteful hyperbole. To call Lucius Cornelius a useless man is
rather akin to calling ice hot. In a word, it is ridiculous.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:20:50 -0000

Salve Sokare Apollonius,

--- In novaroma@--------, "Mike Rasschaert" <hadescallias@h...> wrote:

>>There are alot of loyal and trustworthy and
decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q. Fabius Maximus and
there is another person, a female who runs for praetor. These are
more of the backstabbing, lying people who do nothing but supporting
the oligarchy are really corrupt.<<

>>I was actually talking of Priscilla Vedia and not Pompeia.<>i'm a firm believer of freedom of speech wich include the
right to say what you want about something or someone.<<

Freedom of Speech is an important right, and I am certainly in favor
of free and open exchange of ideas. However, in my opinion, it does
not include the right to slander individuals who have already done
more for our Republic than you are likely to accomplish if you
started now and went non-stop until you were 80!

What evidence do you have that allows you to call some of our most
senior and esteemed citizens "liars and backstabbers"? You may be
only 19, but you should have learned better by now. Such statements
if ever made face-to-face in a less distinguished forum could result
in some painful lessons.

And, whether you mean Priscillia Vedia or Pompeia Cornelia, what does
their being female have anything to do with their suitability for
Praetor, Censor, or any other position in NR? (You may be due some
leeway here if you apparent misogyny is instead a lack of mastery of
English).

I do not know T. Apollonius Cicatrix well, but if I were he, I would
distance myself from your "endorsement" and direct you to seek my
permission before speaking on my behalf again.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Praefectus Regio Magna Flumen America Austrorientalis
Candidate for Quaestor


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 15:28:41 -0500

Salvete cives et amici,

This is a harsh statement. I don't agree with it either. Although I doubt we
know the full story here. There is obviously more going on behind the scenes
then we are aware of. To get this kind of reaction from our honourable
consul seems out of character.

Because of this I will not think any less of anyone involved in this
dispute. I also encourage my fellow citizens to do the same.

Valete,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

>Flavius Vedius Germanicus at germanicus@-------- wrote:
>
> No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless man to
> help him.
>
> Go figure.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix [mailto:alexious@--------]
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:09 PM
>> To: novaroma@--------
>> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
>>
>>
>> Avete Omnes,
>>
>> I am very disappointed in seeing this announcement. It has been my
>> pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.
>>
>> I have complete faith and confidence in my former colleague. When I am
>> elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius as my accensus. I will rely
>> on his experience and judgment.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>> Candidate for Consul
>>
>> Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>>>
>>> Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
>>>
>>> Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my Consular
>>> Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has
>>> failed to
>>> respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year. I do
>>> not
>>> want the record to show that he held the post for the duration of my
>>> term of
>>> office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
>>>
>>> Valete,
>>>
>>> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>>> Consul
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>>> ADVERTISEMENT
>>>
>>>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Nationalism
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:04:12 EST

In a message dated 12/4/01 9:29:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dhartig@-------- writes:

> I applaud your return to reason and fairness, Quinte Fabi. You had me worry
> for a moment.
>
> With my profound respects,
>
> Optime vale,
> Diana Meridia Aurelia
>
>

Salvete Diana Meridia Aurelia et al:
You have summed up my post complety. Flavius read the first lines, jumped to
conclusions, and never read the rest. This was what I meant by macronational
divisions taking precendent over Roman. As one who was born in Germany I
understand what national pride is. This is why I preach against its dangers,
to Nova Romans.
Thank you.
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] A call for civility
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:33:28 -0500

Gaius Minucius Hadrianus Omnibus Civibus Salutem Plurimam Dictit,
I have been watching the mud and invective fly on the main list for the
past few days, and I must say I find it highly distressing. While I am
always in favor of candid speaking, spirited debate and freedom of
speech, I fail to see the necessity in crude slander and mudslinging.
While these were certainly apart of the Roman political process at
times, I think it is something our modern Res Publica can do without.
Such behavior is hardly in keeping with the Roman Virtues which Nova
Roma is founded upon and is frankly embarrassing. As a candidate for
public office, I would like to re-affirm my commitment to the Roman
Virtues and would humbly ask my fellow candidates to do the same, in
hopes that it may influence others and help bring civility back to our
public forums.

I, Gaius Minucius Hadrianus swear before the Gods and People of Nova
Roma to conduct myself at all times in accordance with the Roman Virtues
and never to speak or act in such a way that would bring discredit upon
my Nation. I shall at all times endeavor to be reasoned and temperate in
my debates, and to treat my fellow citizens with the politeness and
consideration that they are entitled too, no matter how strongly I might
disagree with them. I swear to eschew the use of slander, base language
and personal attacks, even if such reprehensible behavior is directed
towards me, my friends or associates. I call upon the Gods of Rome to
witness my oath, and may I suffer such misfortune as you deem fit should
I break it.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legate of Massachusetts
Scriba Propraetoris, Nova Britannia
Canidate for Quaestor

ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: attacks on the censor, praetor and provincial praetor.
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:50:22 EST

In a message dated 12/4/01 11:16:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
labienus@-------- writes:

> While I, unlike many here, can understand why you might choose to
> characterize
> Censor Cornelius and Praetor Fabius in such a manner--which is not to say
> that
> I agree with such a characterization--I cannot in any way understand why
> you
> would include Pompeia Cornelia with them

Well, I for one would like to know. Has this anything to do with our
rejection of his Paterfamilias as Provincial Praetor? Or is this because we
are all Patricians, and represent the dreaded oligarchy...
Apollonius should realize that we were not the only Senators to reject his
Pater. The vote wasn't even close. And as for the oligarchy, these so
called oligarchs kept Nova Roma functioning when it was ready to collapse.
The new citizens perhaps were unaware of this point, so I thought I would
repost it.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Test
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:49:02 -0500

Sorry for wasting space. I am just trying to solve a problem I am
experiencing.


Subject:	Re: RE: [novaroma] Against the Lex Vedia de Oratio
From:	"Marcus Apollonius" <m_apollonius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:57:27 +0100

Salve,

Germanicus scripsit: "the Senate does not rule over the People, but rather it is the People whose will is supreme."

That seems to be forgotten here! Maybe we should post this message to all senate members...

Marcus Apollonius Tacitus

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	04 Dec 2001 15:35:44 -0200

Sending this again seems my first has been lost...

On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 01:36, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless man to
> help him.
>
> Go figure.

To explicit my position on moderation:
This sort of message would be reprehended because it attacks privately
another citizen.

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	[novaroma] Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:17:29 +0100

Ave Tiberie et omnes!

I will stand up for my Tiberius Apollonius Callias Sokarus. It is untrue that he hasn't accomplished anything for Nova Roma yet. I chat with him regularly and I never got a bad word from him, nor did he spread any gossip. It is true that politics don't interest him that much, but that is his full right. I don't consider him to be immature, on the contrary. His work is more concentrated on the religious items. He is working, very silently on different texts about worshipping of the chtonic gods. Secondly, he writes fiction texts in a Roman-like setting. He has an interesting homepage too. All his life he devotes to the honouring of the gods. This is in itself very honourable.

I do not want to defend anything he said against any candidate in this elections. It are his endorsements and not mine. I have chosen to remain silent about endorsements, since my opinion as a new civis is not to be taken seriously. I will vote based upon the elements I dispose off, but I am unable to evaluate the candidates based on their accomplishments in the past. What I can use to vote is of course the programs and the discussions here. But, as I already stated before, it must not become a policy to use the main list to attack people, it is not to be done by magistrates as we have seen earlier today, nor by common cives. We are all Romans and we try to live an honourable life according to Romanitas. Let it thus be clear that I'm not speaking up against Octavius, with whom I maintain friendly relations, nor against any other person in Nova Roma!!!

Vale optime in pace deorum!

Caius Puteus Germanicus
Civis Provinciae Novae Romae Galliae / Germaniae Inferioris
Rogator MMDXXIV AUC
Praefectus Sodalitatis Egressi Germaniae Inferioris Europaeque Occidentalis
http://www.geocities.com/germania_inferior/
http://www.geocities.com/caius_puteus_germanicus/

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Rasschaert
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 8:46 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis

Salvete omni
I was actually talking of Priscilla Vedia and not Pompeia. I'll vote
expecialy those who run against him as i understand that Germanicus
got criticized for his posts because alot people can't stand
criticism. I'm 19years old and currently an artstudent. I have
devoted myself to the Religio. How on earth can i contribute while i
can really do nothing but sitting around? Hey, mayby i am immature,
mayby i'm not. You people will never know unless those who know me
and said to say, there aren't many cives in here that do. I just said
what i think of these candidates. You can attack me anyway on this
one but i'm a firm believer of freedom of speech wich include the
right to say what you want about something or someone.
Valete optimi
Sokarus Apollonius Callias


Subject:	[novaroma] I am attempting to find out where my Nova Roma Coins are
From:	sifurichmooney@--------
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 19:44:16 -0000

Two weeks have almost passed. Please let me know when I might expect
shipment? thanks!

RM

aka

Thoedorus Tiberius Germanicus

Amount: $13.50
Transaction ID: ------------------
Quantity: 1
Item/Product Name: Nova Roma Coins
Item/Product Number: See rates for prices & shipping
Buyer: Rich Mooney
Message: 20 Coins - $13.50 ($10.00 U.S. + $3.50 postage)

SEND TO:

Richard Mooney
2013 Taft Street
Wichita Falls, TX 76309

Thanks!

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Nationalism...choices
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:38:06 -0000

--- Salvete Proconsul et Praetor Fabi:

So, in so saying that Diocletianus should be elected, based on his
performance and not his nationalism, means essentially that you agree
with the very thing Diocletianus is trying to impress upon the
populace.

You agree with him..Excellent!

And personally, I believe Senator Diocletianus speaks wisely too, in
his discourse regarding the evaluation of any candidates'
qualifications.

Vale,
Pompeia Cornelia

In novaroma@--------, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/4/01 12:14:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
3s@--------
> writes:
>
>
> >
> > Citizens, I�m not surprised to hear such a statement by Praetor
> > Quintus Fabius Maximus.
> >
> Well Citizens, I�m sure as Hades surprised to hear such a statement
by
> Praetor
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
>
> I'm sure Flavius would make a fine censor. He'd make a fine censor
even if
> he lived in Hong Kong. And I see now what he was objecting to. I
used the
> word German
> in my statement. And Flavius is <gasp> German. He added 2+2 and
came up with
> 5. Opps...That stiff German pride.
> So OK, that was a bad example. I'll try and say what I meant the
first time.
> Romans vote not for a person from your macronation just because he
or she is
> FROM your macronation. Vote instead for the person you feel will do
the job
> the best. If he or she happens to be from your macronation as well
then
> bully for you. You get a bonus. But to vote in a individual just
because
> they are from your neck of the woods, or for the sake of change, is
not using
> your vote very cleverly. Vote for the performance, not for the
impact.
> Thank you again for listening.
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: Demographics Correction Re: [novaroma] Languages
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:41:00 +0100

Salve Maia Vipsania,

> > � I ommitted 17 Canadian citizens on the list of English speakers, since
> it
> > is a bilingual country, with French as a minority language. I don't
> exactly
> > know how many Canadian francophones are citizens in NR, so this is only
> a
> >hypothetical number.

> I'm a Canadian citizen. I speak English at home, but I've spoken French
> for
> the vast majority of my life, and I'm equally comfortable (and proficient)
> in
> either. If you want to be absolutely technical, I learned English before
> French, so I'd be an anglophone. But to me, the choice between the two is
> essentially irrelevant.
>

That's nice! (no sacrasm intended). If you want to, Gallia has a provincial
list that also serves as a list for francophones, so if you would care to
check it out, here's our URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NRGallia_GalliaBelgicaF .

Vale bene!
S. Apollonius Draco

<< PETITOR AEDILIS PLEBIS >>


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:44:40 -0000

---
Salve Apollonius (and right now I loosely acribe to you this nomen):

Would you care to explain to the populace of Rome in what instance or
instances I have been shown to be a liar and a backstabber? I am the
only female running for Praetor.

Pray tell. I am a far cry from being perfect, but you must prove
these accusations, otherwise they only serve to abuse and defame
without just cause.

You don't even know me, and you call me these names publicly?

Your Paterfamilias and your filias Sextus know me far better; I have
worked with them often in Nova Roma. I think you should have sought a
character reference of my past performances from them before you go
and embarrass yourself by falsities.

Remember, calling other people liars, cheats, backstabbers, etc.,
without proof is a poor way to endorse another candidate for office.

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Candidate Praetor Urbanus

In novaroma@--------, "Mike Rasschaert" <hadescallias@h...> wrote:
> Salvete omni
> > I would like to recommend T. Apollonius Cicatrix to all of you for
> the post of Aedilis Plebis. He's a marvelous man with democratic
> ideas. His interests in Roman society are huge and his university
> studies are about the Roman Civilisation. He's a loyal man, and has
> been always a huge support to help everybody with new ideas in this
> society. He won't disappoint any of you.
> I agree and i have already said this that Tiberius Apollonius
> Cicatrix should be the Aedilis Plebis and everybody in the gens
> Apollonii hope somehow that Cicactrix as Draco get to be Aedilis
> Plebis. He's loyal and brings much to the Nova Roma like M.
> Apollonius Formusanus. There are alot of loyal and trustworthy and
> decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q. Fabius Maximus
and
> there is another person, a female who runs for praetor. These are
> more of the backstabbing, lying people who do nothing but supporting
> the oligarchy are really corrupt. This isn't just me who thinks this
> way. There are alot more people and i'm not just talking about the
> gens Apollonii who are against these people coming back to power
agin
> for another year. Think wisely and don't participate in favoritism
> and the other stuff that will eventually destory the Republic of
Nova
> Roma.
> Valete optimi
> Sokarus Apollonius Callias


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:16:55 -0500

Sokarus Apollonius Callias,

Things are definitely starting to heat up in here...

This post is completely foolish. It was also damaging to your family and the
very two candidates you support. You also proved to me that you obviously
have no understanding of Nova Roma politics. Further making your post hold
no weight.

Now Callias, you can voice your opinions. Freedom of speech is something I
am all for. But please, when you do it use your head, and look into what you
are writing before deciding to write it! Posts like this do not help your
case. They only hurt it.

Sulla and Q. Fabius Maximus are two of the most loyal and dedicated citizens
in this res publica. They have done a lot of good for Nova Roma. Even if you
disagree with some of their policies you have to admit this. Then you go
even further by calling these two great Romans untrustworthy?! What do you
have to back this up? Does the word "slander" mean anything to you citizen?

Then when I think you can write no more garbage you even go further by also
including "a female who runs for praetor". Pompeia Cornelia? She is the only
female running for this position. I also consider her one of my friends. She
has shown me nothing but the virtues we all hold dear to us here in this
nation. She has always been fair and only wants good for Nova Roma. I am
honoured to work with such a person.

You are 19 right now... If you are still a citizen come 21 I can guarantee
you if I had it my way you would not hold office for many more years to
come. You only proved to my by your post that you still have much to learn.

Vale,

"Quamquam cupido sit delictum ab suis crebro est mater virtutum"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Candidate for Aediles Curules
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Please visit my campaign website at:
http://www.virtue.nu/amclaudius/index.htm

Canada Orientalis Website:
www25.brinkster.com/canorien/

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

> Sokarus Apollonius Callias at hadescallias@-------- wrote:
>
>There are alot of loyal and trustworthy and
> decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q. Fabius Maximus and
> there is another person, a female who runs for praetor. These are
> more of the backstabbing, lying people who do nothing but supporting
> the oligarchy are really corrupt. This isn't just me who thinks this
> way. There are alot more people and i'm not just talking about the
> gens Apollonii who are against these people coming back to power agin
> for another year. Think wisely and don't participate in favoritism
> and the other stuff that will eventually destory the Republic of Nova
> Roma.
> Valete optimi
> Sokarus Apollonius Callias
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Civility
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:53:02 +0100

Salve Qurites!

I'll be short! I don't approve of the disrespectful language and unpolite
behavior on the main list.

I have for a long time been driving a campaign of politeness. I am sure
that most of You have observed that I use the honorary titles "Honorable"
and "Illustrus". I know that they are more Imperial than Republican, but I
do have a pupose with using them, let me quote the following from the
instructions of my Cohors Propraetoris assembled in the "Conclavis
Praeparatio Cohors Propraetoris" 23 Sep 2001 (Preparation/Briefing Chamber
of the Propraetorian Staff):

"I only use titles in official circumstances, that is when adressing someone
in public. I also use to address every citizen as "Honorable" by courtesy
and as a symbol of respect. All elected magistrates and Governors I address
as "Illustrus". These are not really correct addresses used during the old
Republic, but rather during the Empire (and they were not correct even
then). So why use them? I do it as I said by courtesy and respect. Nova
Roma is full of political infighting. The "climate" during the elections
usually becomes extremely harsh. I just want to symbolize that I can
separate a person from his/her opinion. My way of addressing is my mark of
my attitude. I will gladly fight for an opinion, but it will never become
personal. I may fight to get the "right" person at a postion, but not to
the prize of bad behavior!

In this issue You are free to find your own way, but I expect each and
everyone of You to behave decently and politely as long as long You are
part of my Cohors Propraetoris, because You then represent the Provincia
Thule and me."

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule

CANDIDATE FOR CURULE AEDILE 2755

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
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************************************************
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Sokarus / attacks on cives by whomever!
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:57:29 -0600 (CST)

Salve Cai Pute,

> I will stand up for my Tiberius Apollonius Callias Sokarus. ... I don't
> consider him to be immature, on the contrary.

Please see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma/message/25478 .

Vale, O.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Curator Araneum et Senator
Candidate for Consul MMDCCLV
http://www.konoko.net/~haase/


Subject:	[novaroma] Thank You
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:03:01 -0800 (PST)

Salvete,

A Very warm thank you to all the citizens who
commented on on Father's illness.

L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:25:49 -0500


Subject:	[novaroma] Mud Slinging
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:09:01 -0800 (PST)

Salvete,

I See that my withdraw from this election has spared
me from some of the mud that is flying around.

Quirites!

Please remember one thing,
When you stoop to attacking a canidate, you are also
admiting that you can't think of anything favorable to
say about the canidate that you support.

Instead of taking the low road, try to think of
something favorable to say about the canidate you
support.

L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Endorsements
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:16:10 -0800 (PST)

Salvete Quirites,

I'm afraid this will have to be brief, I still have
family problems to attend to.

For Consul, L. Cornelius Sulla.

His Work Ethic on behalf of Nova Roma is outstanding.

For Praetor, Q. Fabius Maximus.

The Events of the past few months have prevented him
from introducing the law code that he has put so much
effort into. He deserves the chance to finish his
work.

Hopefully I shall be returning soon,
(Yes somehow I will find time to vote)

L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:18:45 -0500

Salve,

>>What is the real reason for his dismissal? I cannot believe that he didn�t
his work. It seems not only to me he is dismissed because he endorsed me and
not Flavius Vedius Germanicus� wife Priscilla Vedia Serena in the forum.>>

Is this truly what election season has come down to?

I will not speak for my husband on his opinion of the work Decius did, or
did not, do as his Accensus. I *will* however, rightly put you in your
place on the notion that Flavius Vedius Germanicus would have the moral
bankruptcy to dismiss a man from his position due to their speaking out in
favor of you over me as Censor.

The very notion is ludicrous to *anyone* who has the first idea of his
character. Not to mention the fact that I am far from some fair damsel in
need of a big strong man to defend me against people. I will commend you on
a "nice try" at distracting the voters from the true issues at hand, but I
would also strongly suggest you know even the *barest* of facts about a
situation before you choose to level baseless accusations.

I am truly and deeply disappointed in you, not just as my opponent, but as a
Roman.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NR Nationalism...choices
From:	"M Arminius Maior" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:25:29 -0300

Salvete, Quirites
--
On Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:53:42
QFabiusMaxmi wrote:
>Salvete citizens of New Rome...
>
>Recently a spate of "nationalism" posts have raised their ugly head here in
>Rome.
>"Vote for this candidate because he is German," or "vote for this candidate
>because he is
>not American" etc. etc.

MAIOR: I believe that there is some overshooting. I agree with Q.Fabius and Pri.Vedia that we need to chose the better candidate, not the one that lives nearer to us; but i believe that the original post said something like "it would be beautiful if we have a european magistrate" than active anti-unitedstatesian campaigning.

[..]
>Why change horses in the middle of a stream?

MAIOR: Adapting this said to a magistrature term, we are at the ent of the stream now (december), and perhaps a change of horses is desirable...

[..]
>Valete
>Q. Fabius Maximus
>Praetor/Proconsul
>Nova Roma

Valete bene
Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebeius, Propraetor
Petitor Tribunus Plebis
Nova Roman cive


Subject:	Re: Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis
From:	"Marcus Apollonius" <m_apollonius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:10:52 +0100

Salvete omnes,

I don't want to defend Sokarus' rough language here, and I don't know the persons he's talking about privately, but what he says is about what many of us think. And I don't mean the whole gens Apollonia, but (also) other people of other gentes.

Gaius is right about personal attacks and insults, but what you (Gaius) are saying, my friend, isn't very polite either. I knew someone who had two sayings... maybe you should have obeyed them a little more...

With all respect,

Marcus Apollonius Tacitus.

---- Begin oorspronkelijk bericht----

Van:Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@-------->
Verstuur:Wed, 5 Dec 2001 00:48:22 +1100 (EST)
Aan:novaroma@--------
Onderwerp:Re: [novaroma] Re: T. Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis

Salvete omnes et Sokarus Apollonius,

Before I start, I would just like to say that this has
nothing to do with the fact that I am running for the
same position (this is not a paid political
announcemnt:-) ).

I would ask you to conduct yourself with more dignitas
than to attack your elders and seniors such as Sulla
and Fabius. And I happen to feel insulted at your
reference to a female running as a candidate for
praetor being backstabbing and lying, as I happen to
count her among my friends and perhaps the most decent
person I have met during my tenure in the republic. If
you have these opinions, please keep them to yourself
and off the main list. I'm sure there are more
constructive things that could be posted here.

And as for the oligarch statement...leave it be
Sokarus. It's not worth the trouble it will inevitably
bring, and is just another attempt to aggrivate people
who don't need it during this period. If you are going
to go about this, please keep it somewhere were we
don't have to listen to you mouthing off at people.
And before I hear you, or even hear you contemplate,
calling me a "lackey of the oligarchic devils" and the
like, I will tell you that in Nova Roma I consider
myself neutral to all, and that all are amicable
unless proven otherwise. I do not mean this as an
insult to those you mention as oligarchs, but those
who know me know what I mean.

My mother always had a saying...well, actually she had
two sayings, the first being "Sit down, shut up, hold
on!":-) and the second being "If you have nothing nice
to say about someone...keep it to yourself. No-one
likes a spiteful man".

I bid you good day.

Valete bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Candidate Aedilis Plebis

--- Mike Rasschaert <hadescallias@--------> wrote:

<HR>
<html><body>

<tt>
Salvete omni 
> I would like to recommend T. Apollonius Cicatrix
to all of you for 
the post of Aedilis Plebis. He's a marvelous man with
democratic 
ideas. His interests in Roman society are huge and his
university 
studies are about the Roman Civilisation. He's a loyal
man, and has 
been always a huge support to help everybody with new
ideas in this 
society. He won't disappoint any of you. 
I agree and i have already said this that Tiberius
Apollonius 
Cicatrix should be the Aedilis Plebis and everybody in
the gens 
Apollonii hope somehow that Cicactrix as Draco get to
be Aedilis 
Plebis. He's loyal and brings much to the Nova Roma
like M. 
Apollonius Formusanus. There are alot of loyal and
trustworthy and 
decent people in Nova Roma unlike consul Sulla, Q.
Fabius Maximus and 
there is another person, a female who runs for
praetor. These are 
more of the backstabbing, lying people who do nothing
but supporting 
the oligarchy are really corrupt. This isn't just me
who thinks this 
way. There are alot more people and i'm not just
talking about the 
gens Apollonii who are against these people coming
back to power agin 
for another year. Think wisely and don't participate
in favoritism 
and the other stuff that will eventually destory the
Republic of Nova 
Roma. 
Valete optimi 
Sokarus Apollonius Callias 
 
</tt>

 
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- Get organised for Christmas early this year!

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Nationalism
From:	"Marcus Apollonius" <m_apollonius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:21:39 +0100

Salve,

Allow me very few comment too:

>>> "Opps...That stiff German pride."

And that "aggresive American pride"?
What should we talk about? Afghanistan, Irak, Israel, ... ?

Are we trying to be a community here, or should we laugh at eachother because we're from another country?

Let's not be childish,

Marcus Apollonius Tacitus

>Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix for Aedilis Plebis!!!<

---- Begin oorspronkelijk bericht----

Van:"Diana Hartig" <dhartig@-------->
Verstuur:Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:14:04 +0100
Aan:<novaroma@-------->
Onderwerp:[novaroma] Re: Nationalism

Salvete Quinte Fabi Maxime et Omnes,

please allow me a few comments,

> I'm sure Flavius would make a fine censor.
> He'd make a fine censor even if he lived in Hong Kong.

Indeed he would; I am so glad you see this, Quinte Fabi, especially as we
have now decided - have we not ? - that �location is not/should not be an
issue.

> And I see now what he was objecting to.
> I used the word German in my statement.

Now, now - what a term to sneak its way into your, I doubt not, well-meaning
and wise words.

> And Flavius is <gasp> German.

And you, honored Praetor, if I may say so - are <gasp> American. Anything
wrong with that ? I thought we had settled �this ?

> Opps...That stiff German pride.

With you having served as the non-German senior colleague to Praetor
Diocletianus for an entire year I �suppose we can trust your judgement ?!

> I'll try and say what I meant the first time.
> Romans vote not for a person from your macronation just
> because he or she is FROM your macronation. Vote instead
> for the person you feel will do the job the best.
> If he or she happens to be from your macronation as
> well then bully for you. �You get a bonus. �But to
> vote in a individual just because they are from your
> neck of the woods, or for the sake of change, is not
> using your vote very cleverly. �Vote for the performance,
> not for the impact.

I applaud your return to reason and fairness, Quinte Fabi. You had me worry
for a moment.

With my profound respects,

Optime vale,
Diana Meridia Aurelia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Test
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	04 Dec 2001 19:51:50 -0200

On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:49, Amulius Claudius Petrus wrote:
> Sorry for wasting space. I am just trying to solve a problem I am
> experiencing.
>

So am I , 3 messages that didn t come to the list

Manius Villius Limitanus

>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Ave Patricia Cassia!
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 23:32:29 -0000

Congratulations, honoured Senatrix on your appointment as Priestess of
Minerva.

One ancient I admire, Gn Pompeius Magnus, built a huge temple in
honour of Minerva.

Another bit of trivia.

It is interesting that upon the ground of the old temple, a basilica
exists today.
Although it is a Roman Catholic basilica, the official name of the
church is the Basilica de Santa Maria Minerva. Really.

I am awed by the ways in which the Pantheon of Rome, is still
placated throughout the world, quite often by incidental methods.

And something else I've noticed.......

Ever look at the insignia on a needle threader? It is a lady with a
horsehair helmet, I'd bet money it's Minerva/Athena....she is the
Goddess of war, but also the Goddess of Crafts, and her presence is
quite appropriate on a needle threader.

Next time your are in a dollar store, have a peek :)

Once again, congratulations Patricia. All the best as you undertake
your new position.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo


Subject:	[novaroma] NOTICE FROM SCRIBA CURATRIX SERMONEN
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:19:10 -0000

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo Quiribus Nova Roma SPD

If you have experienced a delay in your pending messages today, you
should see them on the list by now.

This morning I went to approve messages and Yahoo! stated x 3 that the
database was unavailable for a few moments.........well it was more
than a few moments. Then, after a 12 hour night shift, I had to get
some beauty sleep for a couple of hours.

It would be very easy to think that there is 'hanky panky' (hankius,
pankius?) transpiring here.

Nope! This I swear by Phoebus' fair foot :)

Just technical difficulties, and apologize for the inconvenience.

Po


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	04 Dec 2001 09:16:28 -0200

On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 01:36, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless man to
> help him.

Salve,

just to show what kind of mails would be reprehended (through a mail to
their author first, deferring the case to the praetors in case of
recidive) this is one.

Vale

Manius Villius Limitanus

>
> Go figure.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix [mailto:alexious@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:09 PM
> > To: novaroma@--------
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
> >
> >
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > I am very disappointed in seeing this announcement. It has been my
> > pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.
> >
> > I have complete faith and confidence in my former colleague. When I am
> > elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius as my accensus. I will rely
> > on his experience and judgment.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Candidate for Consul
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> > >
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my Consular
> > > Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has
> > > failed to
> > > respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year. I do
> > > not
> > > want the record to show that he held the post for the duration of my
> > > term of
> > > office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> > > Consul
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:34:26 -0500

Salve,

>>To explicit my position on moderation: This sort of message would be
reprehended because it attacks privately another citizen.>>

Indeed? I note you are suspiciously silent on what action you would take
against Sokarus and his referring to several people as "backstabbing liars".
Kindly share with us, would his post likewise merit your sending it off to
the Praetors so that *they* could do the job of Curator for you? Or would
such action be reserved for only those "evil oligarchs" whom you so detest?

I await your reply.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena

>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	04 Dec 2001 21:34:18 -0200

On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 21:34, JusticeCMO wrote:
> Salve,
>
> >>To explicit my position on moderation: This sort of message would be
> reprehended because it attacks privately another citizen.>>
>
> Indeed? I note you are suspiciously silent on what action you would take
> against Sokarus and his referring to several people as "backstabbing liars".
> Kindly share with us, would his post likewise merit your sending it off to
> the Praetors so that *they* could do the job of Curator for you? Or would
> such action be reserved for only those "evil oligarchs" whom you so detest?
>

Fast reply I did not receive that post.
I will look it up the list archive

Manius Villius Limitanus (hoping this one will reach the list in less
than 12h)

> I await your reply.
>
> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Manius Villius Limitanus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	04 Dec 2001 18:59:10 -0200

third tentative of getting this through to the mainlist this time with
ccs, beginning to become paranoid....

On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 01:36, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> No doubt; like attracts like. One useless man brings another useless man to
> help him.
>

As an example of the policy I would implement :
This post would be reprehended because it is a personnal attack.

a sentence like "X is useless to the Republic"
would not be reprehended because its a public/political statement.

Manius Villius Limitanus

> Go figure.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix [mailto:alexious@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 10:09 PM
> > To: novaroma@--------
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
> >
> >
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > I am very disappointed in seeing this announcement. It has been my
> > pleasure to serve as colleague to Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus.
> >
> > I have complete faith and confidence in my former colleague. When I am
> > elected Consul I will appoint Decius Iunius as my accensus. I will rely
> > on his experience and judgment.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Candidate for Consul
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> > >
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Let it be known that Decius Iunius Palladius is no longer my Consular
> > > Accensus. His performance in the job has been abysmal and he has
> > > failed to
> > > respond to requests for assistance or work throughout the year. I do
> > > not
> > > want the record to show that he held the post for the duration of my
> > > term of
> > > office, as he has not held it in spirit since March.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> > > Consul
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ADVERTISEMENT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] First anniversary provincia Argentina Sp./Eng.
From:	"M Arminius Maior" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:47:13 -0300

Salvete!

My congratulations to you, Lucius Pompeius! Is wonderful to see my only provincial neighbor going so well.
May the Gods of Rome help you and the Provincia Argentina to grow even more in the next year.

Marcus Arminius Maior
Propraetor, Provincia Brasilia
--

[..]
>English/Ingl�s
>First anniversary of provincia Argentina.
>
>Salvete omnes.
>On December the 5th provincia Argentina will be one year old , and I
>wish to make a summary of what happened during this year.
>At the moment of its creation by the Senate of Nova Roma we were 7
>citizens in our province. Now we are 15.
>When I took office as propraetor, my first actions were creating the
>oficial provincial mailing list and website (
>http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina , y
>http://argentina.novaroma.org ) .
>All these created the base for the provincial growth. A few months
>later we held our first provincial meeting, which was followed by a
>second one, until finally we had our first face to face meeting.
>Since then the meetings continued until today.
>I must thank specially to those all citizens who participated in the
>chats and face to face meetings, because thanks to them and their
>good will, the provincial activity is possible. They helped with the
>diffusion of Nova Roma among their friends, which helped to the
>growth of our province. In my own case, I wrote an announcement in
>spanish about Nova Roma and the provincia Argentina in my own
>personal site ( http://ar.geocities.com/danielovi ). Besides, one
>of the new citizens came from my own spanish speaking group dedicated
>to the ancient world.
>So next Wednesday will be a day for celebrating in my province.
>Valete bene
>Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
>Propraetor provincialis Argentinae


Subject:	[novaroma] VOTE RESULTS - Comitia Centuriata
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:47:30 EST

Salvete Omnes,

I've been offline for a couple of days while trying to set up a new computer
and work out some software bugs. (So far so good, the computer is only
crashing now if I leave it idle for a couple hours!)

At last I am able to post the results from the recent Comitia Centuriata
vote. MANY thanks to all Citizens who turned out to vote!

I: Lex Cassia Octavia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum adopted with 151
centuriae voting yes.
N 5
A 3
NOT VOTED 34

II: Lex Cassia De Cratione Sodalitatum adopted with 141 centuriae voting yes.
N 14
A 4
NOT VOTED 34

III: Lex Cassia Iunia de Iusiurando adopted with 147 centuriae voting yes.
N 10
A 2
NOT VOTED 34

All three items are officially adopted. I ask that the three new laws be
posted to the Tabularium section of the NR website.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Accensus
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:58:09 -0500

Salve,

> third tentative of getting this through to the mainlist this time with
> ccs, beginning to become paranoid....>>

It would not be the first time you jumped to the wrong conclusion.

I remind you of your current status. You yourself have made it public that
you are on moderated status, so this is not news to you. As such, your
posts must wait until either myself or my scriba can attend to them. Given
your ludicrous attempt at maligning the "technical" assistance provided by
myself as Curatrix, I felt it prudent to comment publicly on what is an
expected delay on your posts, nothing sinister at all.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis