Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Spain
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:38:00 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, M. Minuci Audens.

--- jmath669642reng@-------- wrote:
> Gentlemen;
>
> I thank you for your very interesting responses. Master Astur, your
> apologies were instantly accepted with appreciation and grace.

Thank you, sir.

<<snipped>>

> I guess that my point in al this is that I much prefer to be
> personally
> criticized (or perhaps the word could be "reminded") in private.

If I ever feel the unavoidable urge, I will contact you privately :-).

<<snipped>>

> In closing, my thanks to my Spanish colleagues for thier comments,
> and
> my best wishes. I offer by my hand a toast to you both, in fine old
> Spanish Brandy (The best of Bodega Puerto De Santa Maria)--Good
> Health,
> Long Life, Many Children and if you MUST run before the bulls, may
> you
> be fleet of foot, and agile in your flight--Salut!!!!!!

Thank you for your comprehension. As for bull running, experience shows
that a sober head and good running shoes are the most valuable assets
:-).


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	Jeff Johnson <gens_quintia@-------->
Date:	Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:38:56 -0700 (PDT)

When building anything, and in this case we are
attemting to build and empire, you should not build
from the top down. Without the proper foundations all
effort will have been wasted. Therefore I see the
need to establish lands in EACH of the Provinciae as a
sort of provicial capitol. This will allow an easier
access to citizens in those areas for fesivals or
whatever. This would strengthen the bond of citizens
in local areas, giving everyone a sense of Rome.
I would rather see the founding of a "national"
capitol as the crowning achievement to our empire.
Maybe this means none of us will see it in our
lifetime, but I would rather not see it then to see
everything we've worked for up till now fall apart
because all but a few couldn't see a piece of the New
Rome we are creating.
For now I think our national capitol should be in
Us, and our hearts. As even our Senate is made up of
diverse people from different locations, so should our
capitol be located in all places that citizens live.

Marcus Quintius Andronicus
Paterfamilias Gens Quintia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Farewell, or Nerva Marches Off
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 00:41:15 -0000

Salvete,

Within hours of the terrorist strikes in New York and D.C., my
National Guard unit was activated. We provided security at Guard HQ
in Baltimore, and at the Pentagon, from which I returned today.

Last night, we thought we were going home for at least a few
weeks, but such is not the case. My MP unit is being given another
assignment for which we begin preparations on Monday. I am not at
liberty to discuss it at this time, except that it is part of
Operation Noble Eagle, but our absence from Maryland could last up to
two years. {It could also, of course, be much much shorter}

In light of these circumstances, I wanted to do two things.
First, I hereby grant Lucius Cornelius Sulla my voter code, so that
he can cast votes on my behalf in elections and such.

I have every intention of coming back to my very supportive and
adorable wife, Josephine, and Frisky, my cat and best little buddy,
as soon as our business is concluded. However, because we are an MP
unit, there is still a chance, however slight, that something bad
could happen to prevent that. So, before going, I wanted to make my
peace and amends to some individuals and wish them well,
specifically, Lucius Sinicus Drusus, Priscilla Vedia Serena and
Consul Germanicus. I also want to do the same for Octavius
Germanicus and Formosanus.

Marcus Minucius Audens, since this absence is going to be much
much longer than anyone anticipated, I would like to step down as an
assistant on your provincial staff so the slot can be filled by
someone who will be around for a while! It was a pleasure being on
it!

It is my fondest hope that someday soon, hopefully in just a few
months, that I can come back with amusing stories of our adventures
in Operation Noble Eagle. But until then, I wish to offer you all a
fond farewell.

Gaius Cassius Nerva
SPC. Stuart Smith, 115th MP BN, Det. 1

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Farewell, or Nerva Marches Off
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Sat, 29 Sep 2001 23:51:38 -0400

Salve Nerva,

I've had friends here, in the Heathen community, amongst my Star Trek fan
friends, and at work all called up to active duty. I myself was a member of
the USAF Reserve (after serving active duty) a few years ago; I'm afraid I'm
a bit long in the tooth to reenlist at this stage (I would if I could, and
have looked into it). I give you my all-too-often-given response to such
announcements.

Good luck, and kick ass.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gcassiusnerva@-------- [mailto:gcassiusnerva@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 8:41 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Farewell, or Nerva Marches Off
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> Within hours of the terrorist strikes in New York and D.C., my
> National Guard unit was activated. We provided security at Guard HQ
> in Baltimore, and at the Pentagon, from which I returned today.
>
> Last night, we thought we were going home for at least a few
> weeks, but such is not the case. My MP unit is being given another
> assignment for which we begin preparations on Monday. I am not at
> liberty to discuss it at this time, except that it is part of
> Operation Noble Eagle, but our absence from Maryland could last up to
> two years. {It could also, of course, be much much shorter}
>
> In light of these circumstances, I wanted to do two things.
> First, I hereby grant Lucius Cornelius Sulla my voter code, so that
> he can cast votes on my behalf in elections and such.
>
> I have every intention of coming back to my very supportive and
> adorable wife, Josephine, and Frisky, my cat and best little buddy,
> as soon as our business is concluded. However, because we are an MP
> unit, there is still a chance, however slight, that something bad
> could happen to prevent that. So, before going, I wanted to make my
> peace and amends to some individuals and wish them well,
> specifically, Lucius Sinicus Drusus, Priscilla Vedia Serena and
> Consul Germanicus. I also want to do the same for Octavius
> Germanicus and Formosanus.
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens, since this absence is going to be much
> much longer than anyone anticipated, I would like to step down as an
> assistant on your provincial staff so the slot can be filled by
> someone who will be around for a while! It was a pleasure being on
> it!
>
> It is my fondest hope that someday soon, hopefully in just a few
> months, that I can come back with amusing stories of our adventures
> in Operation Noble Eagle. But until then, I wish to offer you all a
> fond farewell.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
> SPC. Stuart Smith, 115th MP BN, Det. 1
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Farewell, or Nerva Marches Off
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 05:46:27 -0000

Farewell Nerva, May you return in victory.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Proraetor America Austroorientalis


--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Within hours of the terrorist strikes in New York and D.C., my
> National Guard unit was activated. We provided security at Guard HQ
> in Baltimore, and at the Pentagon, from which I returned today.
>
> Last night, we thought we were going home for at least a few
> weeks, but such is not the case. My MP unit is being given another
> assignment for which we begin preparations on Monday. I am not at
> liberty to discuss it at this time, except that it is part of
> Operation Noble Eagle, but our absence from Maryland could last up to
> two years. {It could also, of course, be much much shorter}
>
> In light of these circumstances, I wanted to do two things.
> First, I hereby grant Lucius Cornelius Sulla my voter code, so that
> he can cast votes on my behalf in elections and such.
>
> I have every intention of coming back to my very supportive and
> adorable wife, Josephine, and Frisky, my cat and best little buddy,
> as soon as our business is concluded. However, because we are an MP
> unit, there is still a chance, however slight, that something bad
> could happen to prevent that. So, before going, I wanted to make my
> peace and amends to some individuals and wish them well,
> specifically, Lucius Sinicus Drusus, Priscilla Vedia Serena and
> Consul Germanicus. I also want to do the same for Octavius
> Germanicus and Formosanus.
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens, since this absence is going to be much
> much longer than anyone anticipated, I would like to step down as an
> assistant on your provincial staff so the slot can be filled by
> someone who will be around for a while! It was a pleasure being on
> it!
>
> It is my fondest hope that someday soon, hopefully in just a few
> months, that I can come back with amusing stories of our adventures
> in Operation Noble Eagle. But until then, I wish to offer you all a
> fond farewell.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
> SPC. Stuart Smith, 115th MP BN, Det. 1

Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma and the War
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 06:08:09 -0000

Salvete Quirites,

I Think we need to look at the effects the war may have on Nova Roma.

Many of our citizens are members of the US military or Reserves that
may be called to active duty. They may find themselves far from home
and unable to contact us. According to news reports The UK has special
forces units already operating in Afghanistan along US units, so this
may affect citizens from other Macronations besides the USA.

The December elections are comming up. Under the current law a citizen
who dosen't vote in that election will be reassigned to an Urban
tribe. Citizens in active military service may not have the chance to
vote in the upcomming elections through no fault of thier own. I Don't
think it's fair that their votes should be weakened when they return,
so we should ammend the law allowing an exception for citizens who are
on active military service.

When we collect taxes naext year citizens who are on active service
may not have the means to send their taxes in, or considering the
considerable danger they will be in it is understandable if this
matter slips their minds. I respectfully request that the Senate look
into giving citizens on active duty in a war zone an exemption on
taxes until they return, so they won't be placed in the head count for
serving in the war.

Some of the Citizens who may be called to serve may be Paters. We need
a method where Paters who are on active duty can designate a member of
their Gens to act in their stead while they are away so their Gens
dosen't suffer, and so that the war dosen't add to the inactive Pater
problem we already have.

I'm sure that this war will have other effects on Nova Roma beside the
ones I've mentioned, and I welcome any ideas on other problems that we
might face.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Farewell, or Nerva Marches Off
From:	radams36@--------
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 06:41:13 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> Within hours of the terrorist strikes in New York and D.C., my
> National Guard unit was activated. We provided security at Guard
HQ
> in Baltimore, and at the Pentagon, from which I returned today.
>
> Last night, we thought we were going home for at least a few
> weeks, but such is not the case. My MP unit is being given another
> assignment for which we begin preparations on Monday. I am not at
> liberty to discuss it at this time, except that it is part of
> Operation Noble Eagle, but our absence from Maryland could last up
to
> two years. {It could also, of course, be much much shorter}
>
> In light of these circumstances, I wanted to do two things.
> First, I hereby grant Lucius Cornelius Sulla my voter code, so that
> he can cast votes on my behalf in elections and such.
>
> I have every intention of coming back to my very supportive and
> adorable wife, Josephine, and Frisky, my cat and best little buddy,
> as soon as our business is concluded. However, because we are an
MP
> unit, there is still a chance, however slight, that something bad
> could happen to prevent that. So, before going, I wanted to make
my
> peace and amends to some individuals and wish them well,
> specifically, Lucius Sinicus Drusus, Priscilla Vedia Serena and
> Consul Germanicus. I also want to do the same for Octavius
> Germanicus and Formosanus.
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens, since this absence is going to be much
> much longer than anyone anticipated, I would like to step down as
an
> assistant on your provincial staff so the slot can be filled by
> someone who will be around for a while! It was a pleasure being on
> it!
>
> It is my fondest hope that someday soon, hopefully in just a few
> months, that I can come back with amusing stories of our adventures
> in Operation Noble Eagle. But until then, I wish to offer you all
a
> fond farewell.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
> SPC. Stuart Smith, 115th MP BN, Det. 1

My best wishes go with you, citizen, for a swift and successful
campaign and a rapid return to your loving family. We'll look forward
to your return.

Salve,

Rufus Iulius Palaeologus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Farewell, or Nerva Marches Off
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 00:20:01 -0700

Ave,

Take care Nerva, come back safely!

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

gcassiusnerva@-------- wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> Within hours of the terrorist strikes in New York and D.C., my
> National Guard unit was activated. We provided security at Guard HQ
> in Baltimore, and at the Pentagon, from which I returned today.
>
> Last night, we thought we were going home for at least a few
> weeks, but such is not the case. My MP unit is being given another
> assignment for which we begin preparations on Monday. I am not at
> liberty to discuss it at this time, except that it is part of
> Operation Noble Eagle, but our absence from Maryland could last up to
> two years. {It could also, of course, be much much shorter}
>
> In light of these circumstances, I wanted to do two things.
> First, I hereby grant Lucius Cornelius Sulla my voter code, so that
> he can cast votes on my behalf in elections and such.
>
> I have every intention of coming back to my very supportive and
> adorable wife, Josephine, and Frisky, my cat and best little buddy,
> as soon as our business is concluded. However, because we are an MP
> unit, there is still a chance, however slight, that something bad
> could happen to prevent that. So, before going, I wanted to make my
> peace and amends to some individuals and wish them well,
> specifically, Lucius Sinicus Drusus, Priscilla Vedia Serena and
> Consul Germanicus. I also want to do the same for Octavius
> Germanicus and Formosanus.
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens, since this absence is going to be much
> much longer than anyone anticipated, I would like to step down as an
> assistant on your provincial staff so the slot can be filled by
> someone who will be around for a while! It was a pleasure being on
> it!
>
> It is my fondest hope that someday soon, hopefully in just a few
> months, that I can come back with amusing stories of our adventures
> in Operation Noble Eagle. But until then, I wish to offer you all a
> fond farewell.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
> SPC. Stuart Smith, 115th MP BN, Det. 1
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> [Image]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Subject:	[novaroma] Leaving For Service to the Country
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 04:05:28 -0400 (EDT)

Master Nerva;

It is with great regret that I accept your standing down from your
position, but with even greater understanding do I accept such. I send
with you my best regards and my best wishes, as you go into harm's way.
It would me my desire to join with you, but alas it is beyond my time.
So I will bide here, and do what I can on the homefront in support to yo
and the many others with you who go to fight this insidious terror that
would grip us all, were it possible.

Go with my encouragement, my support, and my prayers. Should there be
any service that I may be able to perform for your wife in your absence,
she has but to call upon me.

With Respect and Affection;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma and the War
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Sat, 29 Sep 2001 23:42:22 -0700 (PDT)

I agree with what Lucius Sicinius Drusus said
concerning the current United States/Afghanistan
conflict. There maybe set rules but there comes a
time when there is an exception to the rule that must
be made. Individuals rendered incapable of performing
such functions as voting and paying taxes due to
circumstances in their life, such as active military
service, should not be held liable for their inability
to perform such functions. Of course this is all
within reason. Legislation should be made to make
exceptions for such extreme cases. A suggestion that
comes to mind right now is that legislation could be
made where contact with the senate must be made in if
a extreme circumstance is affected a citizen and they
will be incapable of performing certain functions.
Then with Senate approval the exception will be made
and a temporary pass for exemption is made. The
extent of those circumstances could be deliberated
later but maybe legislation along those lines could be
contemplated.
Quintus Cornelius Caesar

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Subject:	[novaroma] Natalis solis invicti / Christmas
From:	ndvander@--------
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 06:14:32 -0000

Hello,

I am not a citizen of Nova Roma, and I apologize if this post is
inappropriate. But I have a serious question about the date of
Christmas and I would like the opinion of members of this group who
are familiar with the cult of Mithras / Sol Invictus.

Constantine was a follower of Sol Invictus before he converted to
Christianity. In 274, the Emperor Aurelian declared December 25 a
civic holiday in celebration of Mithras. Christmas was first
celebrated in Rome in 354 during the time of Pope Liberius. So it
seems obvious that Christianity just copied the date of Christmas
from Mithras, and probably just absorbed its followers. And maybe
Christianity had some advantages over Mithraism, like it was easier
to join and accepted women. But that is a different topic.

I think that December 25 was originally the Winter Solstice in say
about 100 BC. Since the Julian calendar was being used, the date
slipped 4 days by the time it was adopted as Christmas. And when
Pope Gregory fixed the calendar in 1582, he corrected it back to the
time of the Council of Nicea (325 AD).

So it seems that Christmas is based on the Winter Solstice and was
copied from the Sun worshippers. Do you agree?

Thanks
Nathan Vanderhoofven

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Sat, 29 Sep 2001 21:19:12 -0700 (PDT)

Ave,
Marcus Quintius Andronicus, hit the nail right on
the head when he said that the capitol of Nova Roma
should be in us for now. You cannot look to the
future and what the future holds until you have
planned for the here and now and know what you have in
your hand to play next. Saying that we should
establish a capitol first is being impatient. No
empire can be created politically until all the
provinces of that empire have lands first. Or rather
no empire can exist until it has obtained lands first.
Quintus Cornelius Caesar

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma and the War
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 14:44:01 +0200

Salvete Quirites,

I agree with Drusus, too.

While we are talking about exempting military personnel from taxes, we might
also look at other people who, due to some circumstances, can't pay up, and
could/should be exempted (o.a.p.'s, students, unemployed, poor people...).

Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Farewell, or Nerva Marches Off
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:22:26 -0400

May the Gods be with you - fair winds & following seas. Hope you return soon
Vale bene,
Helena Galeria


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 16:26:56 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
> Marcus Quintius Andronicus, hit the nail right on
> the head when he said that the capitol of Nova Roma
> should be in us for now. You cannot look to the
> future and what the future holds until you have
> planned for the here and now and know what you have in
> your hand to play next. Saying that we should
> establish a capitol first is being impatient. No
> empire can be created politically until all the
> provinces of that empire have lands first. Or rather
> no empire can exist until it has obtained lands first.
> Quintus Cornelius Caesar

I Disagree, our Forum should come before ANY other land purchases.

Once we get the Forum the first thing we need to do is set aside the
land in it where IOM's temple will be, and construct an Altar
dedicated to IOM. Next should be deciding where Other Temples will
have land, along with our Governmental offices.

If we look to ourselves first, if we place having scattered plots
around the globe so we can easily vist them ahead of the Gods, why
would the Gods look favorably apon us?

Once we have our Forum AND a Temple, then we can please our selves by
looking into provincial lands.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Natalis solis invicti / Christmas
From:	mark zona <pitdog2002@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 07:08:46 -0700 (PDT)

Although I am not familiar with the cult of Mithras, I
would like to agree, as this is what I was taught in
4th grade when I went to Catholic school.
The Catholic Church wanted a feast day to celebrate
the birth of Jesus Christ, and since that actual day
of his birth was unknown, December 25th was selected
so that the very popular winter feasts that were
celebrated throughout the empire would remain in tact,
only with a christian flavor.

respectfully,

Zeno

--- ndvander@-------- wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am not a citizen of Nova Roma, and I apologize if
> this post is
> inappropriate. But I have a serious question about
> the date of
> Christmas and I would like the opinion of members of
> this group who
> are familiar with the cult of Mithras / Sol
> Invictus.
>
> Constantine was a follower of Sol Invictus before he
> converted to
> Christianity. In 274, the Emperor Aurelian declared
> December 25 a
> civic holiday in celebration of Mithras. Christmas
> was first
> celebrated in Rome in 354 during the time of Pope
> Liberius. So it
> seems obvious that Christianity just copied the date
> of Christmas
> from Mithras, and probably just absorbed its
> followers. And maybe
> Christianity had some advantages over Mithraism,
> like it was easier
> to join and accepted women. But that is a different
> topic.
>
> I think that December 25 was originally the Winter
> Solstice in say
> about 100 BC. Since the Julian calendar was being
> used, the date
> slipped 4 days by the time it was adopted as
> Christmas. And when
> Pope Gregory fixed the calendar in 1582, he
> corrected it back to the
> time of the Council of Nicea (325 AD).
>
> So it seems that Christmas is based on the Winter
> Solstice and was
> copied from the Sun worshippers. Do you agree?
>
> Thanks
> Nathan Vanderhoofven
>
>
>


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Land for Nova Roma
From:	"CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:28:27 -0000

Thank you, now that I think of it, it would make more sense to start
with the outposts anyway because they would cost the least.

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

--- In novaroma@--------, Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> wrote:
> Well in response to Marcus Cornelius Tiberius, I take
> no offense to your response if you felt you were being
> rude in anyway. I will say that I am fairly new to
> Nova Roma and therefore have not had the time to fully
> look at any suggestions made for the idea of
> purchasing land. However in response to the idea of
> establishing a capitol land first I think a nation of
> any sorts cannot establish a capitol until it has
> aquired lands. If you were to establish a capitol
> land first it would not allow all citizens the benefit
> of seeing this capitol. Therefore it is wiser to
> aquire several small lands initially and then
> establish a sole capitol land. However I will
> emphasize that this is my opinion and you don't have
> to like it or agree with it. But, there is no harm in
> criticizing it and expressing your point of view.
> Quintus Cornelius Caesar
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
> http://phone.yahoo.com

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	"CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:34:43 -0000

Very well said, I just wish every thread I started wouldn't make
everyone mad and fight. I had hoped this would bring hope to every
New Roman and keep us from being constantly saddened by recent
trageties, but I already see some fighting and snide remarks, even
from a consul. :(

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

--- In novaroma@--------, Jeff Johnson <gens_quintia@--------> wrote:
> When building anything, and in this case we are
> attemting to build and empire, you should not build
> from the top down. Without the proper foundations all
> effort will have been wasted. Therefore I see the
> need to establish lands in EACH of the Provinciae as a
> sort of provicial capitol. This will allow an easier
> access to citizens in those areas for fesivals or
> whatever. This would strengthen the bond of citizens
> in local areas, giving everyone a sense of Rome.
> I would rather see the founding of a "national"
> capitol as the crowning achievement to our empire.
> Maybe this means none of us will see it in our
> lifetime, but I would rather not see it then to see
> everything we've worked for up till now fall apart
> because all but a few couldn't see a piece of the New
> Rome we are creating.
> For now I think our national capitol should be in
> Us, and our hearts. As even our Senate is made up of
> diverse people from different locations, so should our
> capitol be located in all places that citizens live.
>
> Marcus Quintius Andronicus
> Paterfamilias Gens Quintia
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
> http://phone.yahoo.com

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	"CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:43:02 -0000

Think of it this way, if we start off with smaller outposts spread
throughout, we can gain worldwide attention, possibly leading to more
citizens and more money as interest grows. Once funds are available,
then we can build bigger by establishing a capitol. Rome wasn't
built in a day, and being scattered throughout the world may be an
advantage in way of getting more attention, compared to the regional
attention of building just one plot of land and calling it the
capitol. If you actually think about it, in order to have a capitol,
there first hast to be something for it to be a capitol of.

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@--------> wrote:
> > Ave,
> > Marcus Quintius Andronicus, hit the nail right on
> > the head when he said that the capitol of Nova Roma
> > should be in us for now. You cannot look to the
> > future and what the future holds until you have
> > planned for the here and now and know what you have in
> > your hand to play next. Saying that we should
> > establish a capitol first is being impatient. No
> > empire can be created politically until all the
> > provinces of that empire have lands first. Or rather
> > no empire can exist until it has obtained lands first.
> > Quintus Cornelius Caesar
>
> I Disagree, our Forum should come before ANY other land purchases.
>
> Once we get the Forum the first thing we need to do is set aside the
> land in it where IOM's temple will be, and construct an Altar
> dedicated to IOM. Next should be deciding where Other Temples will
> have land, along with our Governmental offices.
>
> If we look to ourselves first, if we place having scattered plots
> around the globe so we can easily vist them ahead of the Gods, why
> would the Gods look favorably apon us?
>
> Once we have our Forum AND a Temple, then we can please our selves
by
> looking into provincial lands.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Propraetor America Austrorientalis

Subject:	Emotional Responses was: Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:05:42 -0700

Ave,

There has been an ongoing issue when it comes to reading emails that we
tend to imply emotional responses when we read them. 9 out of 10 times
the responses we apply are wrong. As a result we tend to respond
defensively. Please, and I have been a huge contributory in the past,
do not make that mistake. It is best, IMHO, that in email we should try
to almost think the person making the post is a non emotional person.
That way we can read what is being said without any clutter because it
is very hard to identify if a person is being insulting, patronizing, or
complimenting.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

CJ Sitter wrote:
>
> Very well said, I just wish every thread I started wouldn't make
> everyone mad and fight. I had hoped this would bring hope to every
> New Roman and keep us from being constantly saddened by recent
> trageties, but I already see some fighting and snide remarks, even
> from a consul. :(
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, Jeff Johnson <gens_quintia@--------> wrote:
> > When building anything, and in this case we are
> > attemting to build and empire, you should not build
> > from the top down. Without the proper foundations all
> > effort will have been wasted. Therefore I see the
> > need to establish lands in EACH of the Provinciae as a
> > sort of provicial capitol. This will allow an easier
> > access to citizens in those areas for fesivals or
> > whatever. This would strengthen the bond of citizens
> > in local areas, giving everyone a sense of Rome.
> > I would rather see the founding of a "national"
> > capitol as the crowning achievement to our empire.
> > Maybe this means none of us will see it in our
> > lifetime, but I would rather not see it then to see
> > everything we've worked for up till now fall apart
> > because all but a few couldn't see a piece of the New
> > Rome we are creating.
> > For now I think our national capitol should be in
> > Us, and our hearts. As even our Senate is made up of
> > diverse people from different locations, so should our
> > capitol be located in all places that citizens live.
> >
> > Marcus Quintius Andronicus
> > Paterfamilias Gens Quintia
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
> > http://phone.yahoo.com
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> [Image]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	"Marcus Darius Ursus" <marcus_darius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:23:32 -0600

Salve,

I firmly agree with Marcus Quintius, I think it more important to get the
Provincia together first.


Marcus Darius Ursus
Paterfamilias gens Daria
Legatus Militum, Canada Occidentalis
Legatus, Regio of Athabasca
--------------------------
marcus_darius@--------
Bellerophon@--------
ICQ: 83821138


>From: Jeff Johnson <gens_quintia@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
>Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 17:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
>
>When building anything, and in this case we are
>attemting to build and empire, you should not build
>from the top down. Without the proper foundations all
>effort will have been wasted. Therefore I see the
>need to establish lands in EACH of the Provinciae as a
>sort of provicial capitol. This will allow an easier
>access to citizens in those areas for fesivals or
>whatever. This would strengthen the bond of citizens
>in local areas, giving everyone a sense of Rome.
> I would rather see the founding of a "national"
>capitol as the crowning achievement to our empire.
>Maybe this means none of us will see it in our
>lifetime, but I would rather not see it then to see
>everything we've worked for up till now fall apart
>because all but a few couldn't see a piece of the New
>Rome we are creating.
> For now I think our national capitol should be in
>Us, and our hearts. As even our Senate is made up of
>diverse people from different locations, so should our
>capitol be located in all places that citizens live.
>
>Marcus Quintius Andronicus
>Paterfamilias Gens Quintia
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
>http://phone.yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 19:00:25 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@--------> wrote:
> Think of it this way, if we start off with smaller outposts spread
> throughout, we can gain worldwide attention, possibly leading to more
> citizens and more money as interest grows. Once funds are available,
> then we can build bigger by establishing a capitol. Rome wasn't
> built in a day, and being scattered throughout the world may be an
> advantage in way of getting more attention, compared to the regional
> attention of building just one plot of land and calling it the
> capitol. If you actually think about it, in order to have a capitol,
> there first hast to be something for it to be a capitol of.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>

Salvete

There are 26 provinces, and the land fund has $200.00 in it, not
enough money to pay the taxes on a decent plot of land in one province
let alone buy the land.

HOW, in the name of the Gods do you expect us to develop 26 plots when
we lack the funds for one? What publicity will we get from having 26
vacant lots scattered around the globe? Long before we get those 26
vacant lots we will likely add more provinces, so it's more like
buying 30 plots of land.

You say you want publicity? Then when we finally get the funds for ONE
plot of land, for our Fotum, then Inagurate the site of Iuipiters
Temple with a blood sacrifice. I assure you that will get us a lot
more publicity than 30 vacant plots will.

We are at least 10 years away from buying our Forum. If we go after a
bunch of vacant lots instead of working towards building the Forum,
then we will be closer to a hundred years away from our Forum. Why?
Just so some citizens can drop by a vacant lot to see a Nova Roman
Flag on a pole in the middle of it (assuming it hasn't been torn down
by vandals or stolen).

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:28:41 -0400

I agree, although I think the first temple should be a pantheon.
Vale bene,
Helena Galeria

I Disagree, our Forum should come before ANY other land purchases.

Once we get the Forum the first thing we need to do is set aside the
land in it where IOM's temple will be, and construct an Altar
dedicated to IOM. Next should be deciding where Other Temples will
have land, along with our Governmental offices.

If we look to ourselves first, if we place having scattered plots
around the globe so we can easily vist them ahead of the Gods, why
would the Gods look favorably apon us?

Once we have our Forum AND a Temple, then we can please our selves by
looking into provincial lands.

L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 20:11:28 -0000

A Pantheon is an excellant idea!
Although I strongly feel that we should aside land for IOM's Temple
first, that does not mean we have to build it first, and a Pantheon
would allow us to have a Temple where all the Gods and Goddesses can
be honored while we construct temples to Indiviual Gods and Goddesses.

Drusus


--- In novaroma@--------, "Teleri ferch N--------n" <rckovak@e...> wrote:
> I agree, although I think the first temple should be a pantheon.
> Vale bene,
> Helena Galeria
>
> I Disagree, our Forum should come before ANY other land purchases.
>
> Once we get the Forum the first thing we need to do is set aside the
> land in it where IOM's temple will be, and construct an Altar
> dedicated to IOM. Next should be deciding where Other Temples will
> have land, along with our Governmental offices.
>
> If we look to ourselves first, if we place having scattered plots
> around the globe so we can easily vist them ahead of the Gods, why
> would the Gods look favorably apon us?
>
> Once we have our Forum AND a Temple, then we can please our selves by
> looking into provincial lands.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Propraetor America Austrorientalis
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Natalis solis invicti / Christmas
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:08:27 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, Mr. Vanderhoofven.

--- ndvander@-------- wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am not a citizen of Nova Roma, and I apologize if this post is
> inappropriate. But I have a serious question about the date of
> Christmas and I would like the opinion of members of this group who
> are familiar with the cult of Mithras / Sol Invictus.

As far as I know, this list is an open forum, and not restricted to
Novoroman citizens. And a discussion on the pagan origins of Christmas
certainly is on-topic here. So no apologies are needed :-).

> Constantine was a follower of Sol Invictus before he converted to
> Christianity. In 274, the Emperor Aurelian declared December 25 a
> civic holiday in celebration of Mithras. Christmas was first
> celebrated in Rome in 354 during the time of Pope Liberius. So it
> seems obvious that Christianity just copied the date of Christmas
> from Mithras, and probably just absorbed its followers. And maybe
> Christianity had some advantages over Mithraism, like it was easier
> to join and accepted women. But that is a different topic.
>
> I think that December 25 was originally the Winter Solstice in say
> about 100 BC. Since the Julian calendar was being used, the date
> slipped 4 days by the time it was adopted as Christmas. And when
> Pope Gregory fixed the calendar in 1582, he corrected it back to the
> time of the Council of Nicea (325 AD).
>
> So it seems that Christmas is based on the Winter Solstice and was
> copied from the Sun worshippers. Do you agree?
>
> Thanks
> Nathan Vanderhoofven

I think that your conclusions are correct. In fact, the Catholic church
willingly placed Christmas in coincidence with several pagan
festivities. According to the New Testament, Jesus Christ was born in
Spring, and not in December. This "coincidental" placement of a
religious festivity was not only limited to Christmas. Other pagan
festivals were replaced by Christian holidays during the Middle Ages.

There are a few subtle questions about your post I would like to
discuss, if you want.
You said: << I think that December 25 was originally the Winter
Solstice in say about 100 BC. Since the Julian calendar was being
used, the date slipped 4 days by the time it was adopted as Christmas.
And when Pope Gregory fixed the calendar in 1582, he corrected it back
to the time of the Council of Nicea (325 AD).>>

Could you please explain this in more depth? Thank you.


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:28:34 -0700 (PDT)

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius is right on when he said
that you need lands before capitol and that is you
establish a capitol first then what is really a
capitol of if you have nothing else first. The desire
for a capitol first I think is just being impatient
and possibly jumping the gun. There is time before
anything can be done because this is certainly not a
matter that will be taken care of over night. We
should take things slow and be patient and look at the
full picture. We should avoid being narrow sighted
and looking straight at establishing a capitol. If an
empire is to be established a full examination of the
entire picture is necessary.
Quintus Cornelius Caesar

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:21:20 -0700 (PDT)

How is establishing multiple lands before establishing
a capitol and temple looking to ourselves first? If
Nova Roma is to establish an empire it has to build
from the foundation up not from the top down. The
USSR was established from the top-down and look what
happened to it. It dissolved did it not? Now would
you not want to establish something that would last or
would you prefer an establishment that would
eventually disslove? Whenever man has taken a top
down approach to the establishment of something it has
always led to dissolution. Look at the United States.
We before ever creating a capitol established lands
for which the capitol to oversee. In essence
throughout its 200 year history the United States in
some form or another has created an empire whether or
not we view it as such. Arounf the 1890's and 1900
the United Sates was very imperialistic. When Spain
was fighting a war with Cuba we evntually intervened
and acquired the Philippines, then we got Guam, Puerto
Rico, American Samoa, Hawaii which we eventually gave
statehood to. If that is not the beginnings of an
empire I don't know what is. Now we run an econmoic
empire. But the point is without going through the
two hundred year history in full detail is that we did
it from the bottom up. Nova Roma should contemplate
doing the same thing. It might be beneficial.
However like all things it won't happen over night and
all citizens will have to be patient and bnot rush the
process.
Quintus Cornelius Caesar

__________________________________________________
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Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
http://phone.yahoo.com

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:17:38 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete
>
> There are 26 provinces, and the land fund has
> $200.00 in it, not
> enough money to pay the taxes on a decent plot of
> land in one province
> let alone buy the land.
>
> HOW, in the name of the Gods do you expect us to
> develop 26 plots when
> we lack the funds for one? What publicity will we
> get from having 26
> vacant lots scattered around the globe? Long before
> we get those 26
> vacant lots we will likely add more provinces, so
> it's more like
> buying 30 plots of land.
>
> You say you want publicity? Then when we finally get
> the funds for ONE
> plot of land, for our Fotum, then Inagurate the site
> of Iuipiters
> Temple with a blood sacrifice. I assure you that
> will get us a lot
> more publicity than 30 vacant plots will.
>
> We are at least 10 years away from buying our Forum.
> If we go after a
> bunch of vacant lots instead of working towards
> building the Forum,
> then we will be closer to a hundred years away from
> our Forum. Why?
> Just so some citizens can drop by a vacant lot to
> see a Nova Roman
> Flag on a pole in the middle of it (assuming it
> hasn't been torn down
> by vandals or stolen).
>
> Valete,
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Propraetor America Austrorientalis
>
>
As I have stated before land for Nova Roma will take
time and patience. As, L. Sicinius Drusus said the
land fund only has $200.00. Patience is needed in
order to establish land s and a capitol. Do as anyone
believe that ancient Rome established a capitol before
it had actual lands to govern? The capitol was
established after there was land for it to be the
capitol of and people to govern. People are being
impatient about wanting to establish a capitol yet
having no lands for it to be the capitol of. Of
course this will cost an extraordinary amount of
money. But lets say we establish a capitol first. As
pointed out by L. Sicinius Drusus there are 26
provinces within Nova Roma. So lets say we establish
this capitol in one of those 26 provinces. That
leaves 25 provinces with nothing and they can't
benefit from this established capitol. So is everyone
willing to sacrifice fairness to all for the sole
purpose of rushing towards the establishment of a
capitol? For an empire to exist it needs lands to
govern and THEN a capitol to govern those lands.
Quintus Cornelius Caesar


__________________________________________________
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Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@-------->
Date:	Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:19:57 -0700 (PDT)

The way to go about it is to let each provincia or local go about raisng funds for local use and to purchase land
Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote: --- In novaroma@y..., "CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@y...> wrote:
> Think of it this way, if we start off with smaller outposts spread
> throughout, we can gain worldwide attention, possibly leading to more
> citizens and more money as interest grows. Once funds are available,
> then we can build bigger by establishing a capitol. Rome wasn't
> built in a day, and being scattered throughout the world may be an
> advantage in way of getting more attention, compared to the regional
> attention of building just one plot of land and calling it the
> capitol. If you actually think about it, in order to have a capitol,
> there first hast to be something for it to be a capitol of.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>

Salvete

There are 26 provinces, and the land fund has $200.00 in it, not
enough money to pay the taxes on a decent plot of land in one province
let alone buy the land.

HOW, in the name of the Gods do you expect us to develop 26 plots when
we lack the funds for one? What publicity will we get from having 26
vacant lots scattered around the globe? Long before we get those 26
vacant lots we will likely add more provinces, so it's more like
buying 30 plots of land.

You say you want publicity? Then when we finally get the funds for ONE
plot of land, for our Fotum, then Inagurate the site of Iuipiters
Temple with a blood sacrifice. I assure you that will get us a lot
more publicity than 30 vacant plots will.

We are at least 10 years away from buying our Forum. If we go after a
bunch of vacant lots instead of working towards building the Forum,
then we will be closer to a hundred years away from our Forum. Why?
Just so some citizens can drop by a vacant lot to see a Nova Roman
Flag on a pole in the middle of it (assuming it hasn't been torn down
by vandals or stolen).

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis

Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma
From:	"Living History Australia" <Admin@-------->
Date:	Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:43:31 +1000

Greetings.

I'm hoping to become a member of your community, having sent off my application form a week or so ago. No word as yet. When I emailed the pater of the gens I nominated I got a "dead email" bounce, so I don't think that bodes well for a speedy resolution!

Before I jump head-first into this discussion, I should introduce myself. On the net, I'm known as Omega, and I live in Brisbane Australia. I'm a full-time professional historical re-enactor. I've been doing re-enactment for about 12 years now, and I help run a Roman Re-enactment group called Pax Romana. We do legionary drills, gladiator combats, feasts, all that kind of stuff. If there are any "nova Romans" who want invites to our events, please email me off list and I'd be more than happy to let you know how to get in on the fun.

I've noted with interest the discussions about acquiring land. I too, have walked through the ancient Forum, and stood on the veranda of the Palatine and grieved for the sorry state all those beautiful structures are in. They are awe-inspiring as they are, but imagine them restored to their full glory! Of course re-building the actual ancient site would destroy more than it would preserve, so a re-construction elsewhere is the obvious choice. When I was in Rome (last Xmas) there was talk then of the government re-building the Colosseum and the Forum just outside Rome, as a tourist attraction. Has anyone on-list heard of this plan, and whether it's still going ahead?

On a local note, Pax Romana is in the process of purchasing land here in Brisbane to build (at the very least) a century fort and associated buildings. This is a 5-10 year project, and to our knowledge not being attempted anywhere else in the world at the moment. We went to the re-constructed fort in Sussex as part of our research trip, well worth a look if any of you are able to get there.

Anyway, back to the point. A committee is essential if you want to get this thing off the ground. If you already have a ruling body (the senate) that has their heart and soul in this project then maybe that's all you need for now. But there does need to be someone raising the funds and keeping morale high for this project. Or it will never happen.

I hope I haven't spoken out of turn by throwing my "two sesterce" into the ring.

Omega


The biggest re-enactment event in the Southern Hemisphere..8th & 9th June 2002, Musgrave Park
www.brisbanemedievalfayre.com

Bringing history to life!
www.livinghistory.com.au
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Dreesbach
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma]Land for Nova Roma



The way to go about it is to let each provincia or local go about raisng funds for local use and to purchase land
Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote: --- In novaroma@y..., "CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@y...> wrote:
> Think of it this way, if we start off with smaller outposts spread
> throughout, we can gain worldwide attention, possibly leading to more
> citizens and more money as interest grows. Once funds are available,
> then we can build bigger by establishing a capitol. Rome wasn't
> built in a day, and being scattered throughout the world may be an
> advantage in way of getting more attention, compared to the regional
> attention of building just one plot of land and calling it the
> capitol. If you actually think about it, in order to have a capitol,
> there first hast to be something for it to be a capitol of.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>

Salvete

There are 26 provinces, and the land fund has $200.00 in it, not
enough money to pay the taxes on a decent plot of land in one province
let alone buy the land.

HOW, in the name of the Gods do you expect us to develop 26 plots when
we lack the funds for one? What publicity will we get from having 26
vacant lots scattered around the globe? Long before we get those 26
vacant lots we will likely add more provinces, so it's more like
buying 30 plots of land.

You say you want publicity? Then when we finally get the funds for ONE
plot of land, for our Fotum, then Inagurate the site of Iuipiters
Temple with a blood sacrifice. I assure you that will get us a lot
more publicity than 30 vacant plots will.

We are at least 10 years away from buying our Forum. If we go after a
bunch of vacant lots instead of working towards building the Forum,
then we will be closer to a hundred years away from our Forum. Why?
Just so some citizens can drop by a vacant lot to see a Nova Roman
Flag on a pole in the middle of it (assuming it hasn't been torn down
by vandals or stolen).

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis