Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Newbie Question
From:	CW2ShaneEvans@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:57:07 EDT

Aaaaaaaah thanks. One last question....Can someone from the Plebian order be
elected to the Senate?


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes
From:	tflacco@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:25:22 EDT

Salve Draco,

Good point. We do not want to alienate those, which do not have the means.

I do believe that the Governors, and Prators of the providence's should
decide the taxation levels. Some providence's may even choose $0 because of
the economic standing of the region. Working with the Censors, a citizen
who's means are limited could claim burden, and be accessed $0, Remain in
good standing, and retain the right to vote.

Many fraternal orders, and clubs use the term "member in good standing" when
it comes to issues on dues.

Will some people cheat and claim burden under this? YES. Will we have the
resources to catch them? NO. Do I care that we can't catch them if they
cheat? NO
Why? We have ZERO tax revenue now. Anything more then Zero is something.

As far as renters are concern. Embassy land is leased from the local
Government, but still considered the territorial soil of that government. For
example The land the US leases in Moscow for its embassy is considered US
soil even though Russia really owns in. Now at this point I don't think we
can get the UN to recognize us as a sovereign power, But we could use this as
precedence to state that if a citizen were to lease "Rent" or claim space
"Even if its a PO box" then we would recognize that space as Roman soil.

Scipio Flaccus Americus

E.S. Oppius, Yahoo forced me to use this AOL address and I haven't figured
how to fix it yet.


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Newbie Question
From:	Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:23:02 +1000

I had the same questions, so I went to the Nova Web site and found that
there are a couple of Plebs in the Senate, which means there is hope for us
after all.

I have been a citizen for about one month...

Marcus Sentius Claudius

-----Original Message-----
From: CW2ShaneEvans@-------- [mailto:CW2ShaneEvans@--------]
Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2001 7:57 Am
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Newbie Question

Aaaaaaaah thanks. One last question....Can someone from the Plebian order
be
elected to the Senate?

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
**********************************************************************


Subject:	[novaroma] Media Group
From:	Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:26:03 +1000

I wish to start a list of citizens who are able to commit high end media
resources to the benefit of the development of Nova Roma - if any citizen is
involved in the media (production / video / film) can they email me either
at this list or at :

mark_a_bird@--------
markbird@--------

I am thinking of pooling our resources together to produce something
tangible for our young republic.

Vale

Marcus Sentius Claudius

-----Original Message-----
From: tflacco@-------- [mailto:tflacco@--------]
Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2001 9:25 Am
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Taxes

Salve Draco,

Good point. We do not want to alienate those, which do not have the means.

I do believe that the Governors, and Prators of the providence's should
decide the taxation levels. Some providence's may even choose $0 because of
the economic standing of the region. Working with the Censors, a citizen
who's means are limited could claim burden, and be accessed $0, Remain in
good standing, and retain the right to vote.

Many fraternal orders, and clubs use the term "member in good standing" when

it comes to issues on dues.

Will some people cheat and claim burden under this? YES. Will we have the
resources to catch them? NO. Do I care that we can't catch them if they
cheat? NO
Why? We have ZERO tax revenue now. Anything more then Zero is something.

As far as renters are concern. Embassy land is leased from the local
Government, but still considered the territorial soil of that government.
For
example The land the US leases in Moscow for its embassy is considered US
soil even though Russia really owns in. Now at this point I don't think we
can get the UN to recognize us as a sovereign power, But we could use this
as
precedence to state that if a citizen were to lease "Rent" or claim space
"Even if its a PO box" then we would recognize that space as Roman soil.

Scipio Flaccus Americus

E.S. Oppius, Yahoo forced me to use this AOL address and I haven't figured
how to fix it yet.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
**********************************************************************


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Newbie Question
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:27:06 -0700

on 4/23/01 2:57 PM, CW2ShaneEvans@-------- at CW2ShaneEvans@-------- wrote:

> Aaaaaaaah thanks. One last question....Can someone from the Plebian order be
> elected to the Senate?
>

Ave,

Yes, there are a number of regulations where citizens can become Senators.
I highly suggest you go to the Tabuluarim and read the Constitution and
various laws listed in there....They will answer many of your questions.

Off the top of my head we have 5 Plebian Senators.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Time/date stamps
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:28:20 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@t...> wrote:
> Salve, Pompeia Cornelia.
>
> I'm not sure if I'm the only one with this problem, but your mails
tend
> to arrive approximately 40 hours after you send them, at least
according
> to my mail program. Since I sort by date, this means your mails wind
up
> somewhere on my list where I sometimes have a problem finding them.
Is
> there some explanation for this phenomena? Can something be done
without
> causing too much work?

Pompeia Respondeo: Ahh, you noticed that eh? More often than not
lately, my messages from Hotmail to Yahoo are grossly delayed, and are
posted more than once. Quite often, by the time my messages arrive,
they are obsolete, or out of sequence, so that they look very
unsensible. I have learned that anything *critical* I have to post in
a timely manner, I must post directly from the Yahoo website.

I have NO problems mailing from hotmail to another ISP, just from
Hotmail to Yahoo. I am convinced that this is *accidentally on
purpose*......it is always when I mail Yahoo.

Probably in the next day or two, I am going to switch over to a Yahoo
addie and kiss Hotmail goodbye.

Thanks for noticing my predicament :)

Pompeia
>
> Thanks for your time!
>
> Vale,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,
> Consiliarius Thules,
> Praeco Anarei Thules,
> Scriba to the Curator Araneum
>
> AKA Kristoffer From
>
> ---
>
> Si hoc signum legere potes,
> operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
> et fructuosis potiri potes.
>
> - Not-so-famous quotation


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	Harijan <isobel@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:39:07 -0400

Salvete -

Don't shoot me! I'm a complete newbie. (In fact, I only JUST received
notice of my citizenship.)

Might I ask, where do I go next? I have bookmarked the Nova Roma site and
I've explored it a little.

Camilla Prometha Severina


Subject:	[novaroma] Extention and Correction
From:	SkaldElf@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:54:08 EDT

Salve,

In the last few minutes some changes have been made. Firstly there has been a
change of time deadline concerning the Shakespeare Showcase. The time has
been extended to 2 p.m. Eastern Time Zone tomorrrow April 25th. And
secondly, since I didn't exactly go through the proper channels within the
Sodalitas Musarum for it to be sponsored by the Sodalitas.I realize now it
wouldn't be proper to claim such a thing. The Showcase is hereby sponsored by
ForTheMuses, I am the list Owner and it's creator. So Aeternia won't be
taking too much heat. Otherwise let the bumrushing and Pandemonuim begin, my
thanks again to the Moderator of the list not being too angry with me.

Bene Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Introduction
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:11:59 -0700

Salve Marce Scipi Africane!

Welcome to Nova Roma! We're glad to have you
here among us and your military and historical
background will be of great benefit to the rest
of us.

Bene vale,
Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: CW2ShaneEvans@-------- [mailto:CW2ShaneEvans@--------]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:08 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Introduction

Salve Roma,
I am a new citizen to the Empire, but a long time historian. I am
currently building a Cohort of Legio XX in the Columbus, Ohio area, and look
forward to attending as many NR events as we can.

Marcus Scipio Africanus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest No 1356
From:	carycancary1333@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:19:56 EDT

I am very much in favor of this proposal. I feel that the head of the gens
should be willing to carry a heavier weight financially, and the one or two
bucks per year from each member would tend to keep the roles cleaned up of
inactive members. Good idea!

Aulus Spurius Hadrianus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Gods of the Underworld
From:	Andrea Gladia Kyrinia <andrea_gladia@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:32:24 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete!

--- hadescallias@-------- wrote:
> and the Gods and Goddesses associated with the Underworld.

Usually just saying "gods" covers it for me. :)

Valete,

=====
Andrea Gladia Kyrinia
Apollinis Templi Sacerdos
Materfamilias of Gladia
*******************************************
Yahoo: kyreneariadne / andrea_gladia / andrea_m_berman
AIM: Kyrene Ariadne / la Amberman ICQ: 6663573
http://TempleApollo.faithweb.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] E-mail update
From:	pjane@--------
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 02:36:36 -0000

I have had reports of people trying to reach me at this address and
having mail bounce back. I have changed my service to allow more
reliable access, and apologize for any difficulty people may have had
in reaching me.

Patricia Cassia
Quaestor, Nova Roma


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:13:05 +0200

>Salvete -
>
>Don't shoot me! I'm a complete newbie. (In fact, I only JUST received
>notice of my citizenship.)
>
>Might I ask, where do I go next? I have bookmarked the Nova Roma site and
>I've explored it a little.

>
>Camilla Prometha Severina

Salve Honorable Camilla Prometha Severina!

Start with going to: http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/whatnow/

This site is composed by our esteemed Senior Consul and it is a very good
start. There could also be a provincial site.

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] Hungarian version of Pannonian site alredy available
From:	alexanderprobus@--------
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:20:55 -0000

Salvete Novaromani, Pannonici et amici alii!

Salvete Pannonici et amici alii,

I am very glad to announce that thanks to Legatus Pannonia Superior
Marcus Gryllus Victorinus, the Hungarian version of Pannonian
provincial site is already available on the net at
http://www.geocities.com/alexprobus/indexHU.html .

Hereby I would like to express my thanks to Legatus Victorinus for
the excellent done job and good cooperation.

Bene valete

Alexander I.C. Probus M.

Propraetor Pannoniae, Senator


Subject:	[novaroma] Edictum Proconsul CALIFORNIA
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 05:42:02 EDT

I, Quintus Fabius Maximus the Proconsul of CAL, hereby issue the following
Edicts:
I. California is split into II administrative areas, California Superior,
administrated by Legatus Marcus Martianus Gangalius, and California Inferior,
administrated by Legatus Marcus Cornelius Scipio.
II The border of the two areas shall run in a straight line from town of
Monterey across the California province terminating at the Nevada/Utah
border.


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Newbie Question
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:14:38 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CW2ShaneEvans@-------- [mailto:CW2ShaneEvans@--------]
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 17:57
>
> Aaaaaaaah thanks. One last question....Can someone from the Plebian order
be
> elected to the Senate?

Absolutely (although it's more accurate to say "appointed" to the Senate,
rather than "elected"). I've put up a website specifically to answer new
Citizens' questions; you might find it useful to take a look.

http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/whatnow

And please, if you (or anyone) has any questions that you don't find
answered on that site, please let me know!

(And welcome, by the way!)

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Media Group
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:20:28 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark A Bird [mailto:mark_a_bird@--------]
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 20:26
>
> I wish to start a list of citizens who are able to commit high end media
> resources to the benefit of the development of Nova Roma - if any citizen
is
> involved in the media (production / video / film) can they email me either
> at this list or at :
>
> mark_a_bird@--------
> markbird@--------
>
> I am thinking of pooling our resources together to produce something
> tangible for our young republic.

If I may, you might find some interest among the Sodalitas Egressus (which
is involved specifically in such "outreach" programs to get the word out
about Nova Roma). Your high-end media project sounds right up our alley. I
hope the powers-that-be forgive my presumption, but please do check out the
Sodalitas' email list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Egressus

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	[novaroma] What to do with non-taxpayers
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:04:13 -0400

Salvete Quirites

A while ago I had posted the idea that Nova Roma could make a place for
Citizens who were unable or unwilling to pay taxes. Now, it seems, the idea
has come full circle, for I see the very question has come up again in the
general taxation discussion! Never one to overlook such a timely
opportunity, I would like to submit the following proposal for a lex.

Please note that this proposal _only_ deals with the question of what to do
with Citizens who do not pay taxes (for whatever reason). It does not have
anything to do with how much taxes are, how or when they're collected, what
exceptions may be granted, how they're allocated, or anything of that nature
(which is Constitutionally the job of the Senate).

The brief overview of the proposed lex is that Citizens who do pay taxes are
classified as assidui, and those who do not are classified as proletarii.
Citizens who are proletarii would still be Citizens, and still have the
right to vote, but would be gathered into a single Century designated for
that purpose, and be relegated to the four Urban Tribes. Proletarii would
also not be elegible to hold a magistracy or governorship.

In short, those who contribute financially to the welfare of the Republic
have a larger voice politically, but those who do not are not thrown out on
their ear. This, I believe, is a good medium between those who say that we
either shouldn't have taxes at all and those who say that paying taxes
should be a requirement of Citizenship.

As always, feedback is welcome (especially corrections to my attrocious
latin).

-----

LEX VEDIA DE ASSIDUI ET PROLETARII (proposed)

I. This Lex Vedia de assidui et proletarii is hereby enacted to define the
classifications of taxpayers and non-taxpayers, and put in place special
conditions on those who are unable or unwilling to support the financial
welfare of the Republic through payment of those taxes which may be enacted
by the Senate.

II. Citizens who pay taxes in such amount and in such manner as may be
defined by the Senate shall be considered assidui. No special conditions
shall be placed on assidui in regards to their placement in centuries and
tribes or their ability to run for or hold office.

III. Citizens who do not pay taxes in such amount and in such manner as may
be defined by the Senate shall be considered proletarii. The following
special conditions shall apply to proletarii:

A. The Censors shall place all proletarii in the last century in Class
V as defined in the Lex Vedia Centuriata and those leges which may amend it,
and no other Citizens shall be enrolled therein.

B. The Censors shall place all proletarii in the urban tribes as
defined in the Lex Vedia Tributorum and those leges which may amend it.

C. No member of the proletarii may run for or hold office as one of the
ordinarii (including the apparitores), nor be appointed to or hold office as
provincial governor. Proletarii may hold provincial or local offices at the
discretion of the governor of the province in question.

-----

I would point out that simply taking away the voting privileges of the
proletarii would be quite unconstitutional, and I believe it would be
detrimental to Nova Roma's overall growth and prosperity. Simply put, this
lex would encourage folks to support the Republic financially, while at the
same time providing a place for those who cannot or will not do so.

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	[novaroma] Dacian Wars question
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jerry=20Anguston?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:22:33 +1000 (EST)

Salvete omnes,

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas or knew of any
actual records of how great a proportion of the Dacian
attacks on the forts along the Danube were Sarmatian
allies?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Valete bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Legatus Australia Medius

_____________________________________________________________________________
http://store.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Store
- It's time you had your business online!


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What to do with non-taxpayers
From:	Gaia Natalina Casca <gaianatalinacasca@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 06:54:54 -0700 (PDT)

This is an idea that I can fully support.

Thank you,

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites
>
> A while ago I had posted the idea that Nova Roma
> could make a place for
> Citizens who were unable or unwilling to pay taxes.
> Now, it seems, the idea
> has come full circle, for I see the very question
> has come up again in the
> general taxation discussion! Never one to overlook
> such a timely
> opportunity, I would like to submit the following
> proposal for a lex.
>
> Please note that this proposal _only_ deals with the
> question of what to do
> with Citizens who do not pay taxes (for whatever
> reason). It does not have
> anything to do with how much taxes are, how or when
> they're collected, what
> exceptions may be granted, how they're allocated, or
> anything of that nature
> (which is Constitutionally the job of the Senate).
>
> The brief overview of the proposed lex is that
> Citizens who do pay taxes are
> classified as assidui, and those who do not are
> classified as proletarii.
> Citizens who are proletarii would still be Citizens,
> and still have the
> right to vote, but would be gathered into a single
> Century designated for
> that purpose, and be relegated to the four Urban
> Tribes. Proletarii would
> also not be elegible to hold a magistracy or
> governorship.
>
> In short, those who contribute financially to the
> welfare of the Republic
> have a larger voice politically, but those who do
> not are not thrown out on
> their ear. This, I believe, is a good medium between
> those who say that we
> either shouldn't have taxes at all and those who say
> that paying taxes
> should be a requirement of Citizenship.
>
> As always, feedback is welcome (especially
> corrections to my attrocious
> latin).
>
> -----
>
> LEX VEDIA DE ASSIDUI ET PROLETARII (proposed)
>
> I. This Lex Vedia de assidui et proletarii is hereby
> enacted to define the
> classifications of taxpayers and non-taxpayers, and
> put in place special
> conditions on those who are unable or unwilling to
> support the financial
> welfare of the Republic through payment of those
> taxes which may be enacted
> by the Senate.
>
> II. Citizens who pay taxes in such amount and in
> such manner as may be
> defined by the Senate shall be considered assidui.
> No special conditions
> shall be placed on assidui in regards to their
> placement in centuries and
> tribes or their ability to run for or hold office.
>
> III. Citizens who do not pay taxes in such amount
> and in such manner as may
> be defined by the Senate shall be considered
> proletarii. The following
> special conditions shall apply to proletarii:
>
> A. The Censors shall place all proletarii in
> the last century in Class
> V as defined in the Lex Vedia Centuriata and those
> leges which may amend it,
> and no other Citizens shall be enrolled therein.
>
> B. The Censors shall place all proletarii in
> the urban tribes as
> defined in the Lex Vedia Tributorum and those leges
> which may amend it.
>
> C. No member of the proletarii may run for or
> hold office as one of the
> ordinarii (including the apparitores), nor be
> appointed to or hold office as
> provincial governor. Proletarii may hold provincial
> or local offices at the
> discretion of the governor of the province in
> question.
>
> -----
>
> I would point out that simply taking away the voting
> privileges of the
> proletarii would be quite unconstitutional, and I
> believe it would be
> detrimental to Nova Roma's overall growth and
> prosperity. Simply put, this
> lex would encourage folks to support the Republic
> financially, while at the
> same time providing a place for those who cannot or
> will not do so.
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>

=====
Gaia Natalina Casca
Fremont, California

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Winner of Roma Conditio Laurel
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:08:46 -0000

Salvete omnes!

It is with great pleasure that I, Marius Cornelius Scipio, with the
concurrence of my colleague, Titus Sertorius Albinus, hereby announce
the winner of the Roma Conditio Laurel:

And the laurel goes to Salonina Flacca, for her opus called:
"A Vineyard in Pompeii"!

Gratias multas to all who participated - you gave us such an arduous
task! The wide array and depth of talent displayed in this festival
heartens and inspires me to believe that our Urbs will grow towards
higher and higher achievements. May the Gods smile upon us all, and
may we all continue to benefit from this deep well of talent and
beauty!

Optime vale!

Marius Cornelius Scipio
Aedilis Curulis Nova Romani


Subject:	[novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER SIXTEEN
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:42:32 -0500

CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER SIXTEEN

APPOINTMENT OF LEGATUS MILITUM FOR CANADA OCCIDENTALIS

24 Apr 2001

Salve All

I, Quintus Sertorius, Propraetor Canada Occidentalis, issue the following Edicta to announce the appointment of Marcus Darius Ursus, to the position of Legatus Militum for the Provinica of Canda Occidentlis.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius
Tribune
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What to do with non-taxpayers
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:16:44 +0200

>LEX VEDIA DE ASSIDUI ET PROLETARII (proposed)
>
>I. This Lex Vedia de assidui et proletarii is hereby enacted to define the
>classifications of taxpayers and non-taxpayers, and put in place special
>conditions on those who are unable or unwilling to support the financial
>welfare of the Republic through payment of those taxes which may be enacted
>by the Senate.
>
>II. Citizens who pay taxes in such amount and in such manner as may be
>defined by the Senate shall be considered assidui. No special conditions
>shall be placed on assidui in regards to their placement in centuries and
>tribes or their ability to run for or hold office.
>
>III. Citizens who do not pay taxes in such amount and in such manner as may
>be defined by the Senate shall be considered proletarii. The following
>special conditions shall apply to proletarii:
>
> A. The Censors shall place all proletarii in the last century in Class
>V as defined in the Lex Vedia Centuriata and those leges which may amend it,
>and no other Citizens shall be enrolled therein.
>
> B. The Censors shall place all proletarii in the urban tribes as
>defined in the Lex Vedia Tributorum and those leges which may amend it.
>
> C. No member of the proletarii may run for or hold office as one of the
>ordinarii (including the apparitores), nor be appointed to or hold office as
>provincial governor. Proletarii may hold provincial or local offices at the
>discretion of the governor of the province in question.

Salve Omnes!

It is good to see that we are getting close to some real decisions! I fully
stand behind this proposal and hope that the overwhelming majority of the
Populus will vote for it when the time comes!

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: What to do with non-taxpayers
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:21:33 -0000

Salvete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus writes, in part:
>>The brief overview of the proposed lex is that
Citizens who do pay taxes are classified as assidui, and those who do
not are classified as proletarii. Citizens who are proletarii would
still be Citizens, and still have the right to vote, but would be
gathered into a single Century designated for that purpose, and be
relegated to the four Urban Tribes. Proletarii would also not be
elegible to hold a magistracy or governorship.<<

I have been opposed to creating what is essentially two classes of
citizens because it doesn't "feel" right to me and would likely be
divisive. However, it is clear to me that the Republic needs
revenue, and it has become clear that there are citizens who are
unable or unwilling to contribute. Therefore, there seems to be no
other solution. Our esteemed Consul's proposed lex is in-line with
ancient practice, and I support it.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What to do with non-taxpayers
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:51:26 +0200

Salvete, omnes.

I'd just like to state my opinion, even if it's one not likely shared
with many other citizens.

I'm opposed to all taxation and punishment because of failure. I'm not
saying that I'm not willing to contribute to Nova Roma, but I would
prefer to do it on a voluntary basis. For example, if whoever does the
budget, one month before they start doing it, mail everyone, telling
them that a (voluntary) donation of approx. $15 submitted thus-and-thus
would be good, I'd likely donate $30 without much hesitation.
Admittedly, I'm a student, without as much money as some citizens might
have, but even $30 wouldn't seem too much, as long as it was voluntary.
It's just that part, "pay or be punished", (or downgraded,
whatever...paying and non-paying citizens are separated, somehow) that
bothers me. Just a friendly mail, telling me that you need money, and
this is the quick and easy way to supply you with it. I don't consider
everything all the time, so a nice yearly reminder that I could make a
donation to Nova Roma, and all would be happy.

Admittedly, this would probably not be as efficient as mandatory taxes,
but it would feel (To me, at least) much better. Just my opinion, my
thoughts.

Valete,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Gods of the Underworld
From:	"mike rasschaert" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:04:22 -0000

and can you give me the info i'm looking?

>From: Andrea Gladia Kyrinia <andrea_gladia@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Gods of the Underworld
>Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:32:24 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Salvete!
>
>--- hadescallias@-------- wrote:
> > and the Gods and Goddesses associated with the Underworld.
>
>Usually just saying "gods" covers it for me. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Valete,
>
>=====
>Andrea Gladia Kyrinia
>Apollinis Templi Sacerdos
>Materfamilias of Gladia
>*******************************************
>Yahoo: kyreneariadne / andrea_gladia / andrea_m_berman
>AIM: Kyrene Ariadne / la Amberman ICQ: 6663573
>http://TempleApollo.faithweb.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Media Group
From:	"mike rasschaert" <hadescallias@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:07:00 -0000

And artists. i'm an artist in training at an artschool in Ghent, Belgium. I
also write stories and draw as paint. Can they join.

>From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: RE: [novaroma] Media Group
>Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:20:28 -0400
>
>Salve
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark A Bird [mailto:mark_a_bird@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 20:26
> >
> > I wish to start a list of citizens who are able to commit high end media
> > resources to the benefit of the development of Nova Roma - if any
>citizen
>is
> > involved in the media (production / video / film) can they email me
>either
> > at this list or at :
> >
> > mark_a_bird@--------
> > markbird@--------
> >
> > I am thinking of pooling our resources together to produce something
> > tangible for our young republic.
>
>If I may, you might find some interest among the Sodalitas Egressus (which
>is involved specifically in such "outreach" programs to get the word out
>about Nova Roma). Your high-end media project sounds right up our alley. I
>hope the powers-that-be forgive my presumption, but please do check out the
>Sodalitas' email list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Egressus
>
>Next year in the Forum!
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul
>
>email: germanicus@--------
>AIM: Flavius Vedius
>www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:46:23 +0200

Salvete Censor Sulla et Tite Octavi,

> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix wrote:
> > But also lets not forget most of the shooting down, at least from my
> > observation are coming from people who are just as new. I havent seen
> > any "oldtimer," who has been overly criticial.
>
> Salve, Luci Corneli.
>
> Aye, but then your definition of "oldtimer" might differ from that of
> someone who joined the list yesterday...not many of us have been
> involved in Nova Roma as long as you have...:)
>
> But I agree, those that bring out the big guns and load up on the ammo
> have usully not been active for more than half a year, allowing for some
> exceptions. Still, to newcomers, they are the most active, and therefore
> those whose opinions matter the most.

I wonder how someone can know this the instant they join, not knowing the
legacy of those 'sleeping big guns'. I hope you're not implying I'm one of
those, because I'm not.

Valete bene!
Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:52:24 +0200

Salve Americe,

> Good point. We do not want to alienate those, which do not have the means.
>
> I do believe that the Governors, and Prators of the providence's should
> decide the taxation levels. Some providence's may even choose $0 because
of
> the economic standing of the region. Working with the Censors, a citizen
> who's means are limited could claim burden, and be accessed $0, Remain in
> good standing, and retain the right to vote.

Good thinking. However, I would turn 'Censors' into Quaestors. Of course,
the line between personal finances as either personal (and thus being info
for the Censor) or either strictly financial (so being only for the
Quaestor) is vague. Might I suggest that the Senate could set, by means of a
Senatus Consultum (quite litterally, an advice), the standard amount of due?
Then the provincial Praetores could still amend this amount as they choose.
The question is, what will be done with provinciae that don't have a
Praetor?

(snipped)

> Will some people cheat and claim burden under this? YES. Will we have the
> resources to catch them? NO. Do I care that we can't catch them if they
> cheat? NO
> Why? We have ZERO tax revenue now. Anything more then Zero is something.
>

True. But as NR grows, some possibility of checking for fraud should come. I
think Lucius Sicinius has much experience with the financial aspects of
organizations, so I'm not going to get too deep into the legal matter here,
when others can put it better than I can :).

> As far as renters are concern. Embassy land is leased from the local
> Government, but still considered the territorial soil of that government.
For
> example The land the US leases in Moscow for its embassy is considered US
> soil even though Russia really owns in. Now at this point I don't think we
> can get the UN to recognize us as a sovereign power, But we could use this
as
> precedence to state that if a citizen were to lease "Rent" or claim space
> "Even if its a PO box" then we would recognize that space as Roman soil.
>

We could, but if no one else would, it doesn't mean much. It's a nice idea
in itself, as a basis for paying tax, but I personally wouldn't draw it too
far.

Vale bene!
Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What to do with non-taxpayers
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:39:02 +0200

Salve Consul Vedi,

A small comment: people who can't pay (or who are late, or who are having
difficulties in paying) would be equally 'punished' as those who just don't
want to pay while they can. I thought Caeso Fabius' list of exceptions (and
in fact the whole proposal) covered that pretty well.

Vale bene!
Draco


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN: Results of provincial inquiry
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:42:24 +0200

Salvete Quirites Novae Romae,

Provincia Gallia recently held an inquiry regarding participation, taxes and the language policy. Here are the results.

PARTICIPATION

a.. Provincia Gallia has 22 citizens
b.. 11 citizens could be reached
c.. 6 citizens responded
d.. 3 of those citizens responding have the main list
e.. Conclusion: Gallia is crying for a deeper participation
TAXES

a.. 1 citizen wants to pay taxes, but feels citizens should not be punished for not doing so
b.. 5 citizens do not want to pay taxes, find a land fund a laughable idea, and have serious questions about what is to happen with their money across the Atlantic
c.. Conclusion: tax in its present form is getting a no from Gallia.
LANGUAGE POLICY
a.. 4 citizens are in favour of the language policy
b.. 2 citizens are against the language policy
c.. Conclusion: the language policy is getting a yes from Gallia
MULTILINGUISM
a.. 3 citizens have some knowledge of Latin
b.. 6 citizens speak more than one language
c.. 5 citizens speak more than two languages
d.. 1 citizen speaks more than four languages
e.. Conclusion: Multilinguism has become a must for European people; why not for the rest of us?

Sextus Apollonius Draco,
Legatus Galliae Boraelis
Procurator Galliae
Scriba Propraetoris

Vainqueur, ICQ# 32924725
Darkling_Crawler, Yahoo IM

"Come, fly the teeth of the wind; share my wings" (FSOL)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Media Group
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:40:11 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mike rasschaert [mailto:hadescallias@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:07
>
> And artists. i'm an artist in training at an artschool in Ghent, Belgium.
I
> also write stories and draw as paint. Can they join.

Absolutely! I know the Egressus (and NR as a whole) would welcome some
artwork to use in flyers, brochures, etc.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:39:34 +0200

"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
> I wonder how someone can know this the instant they join, not knowing the
> legacy of those 'sleeping big guns'. I hope you're not implying I'm one of
> those, because I'm not.

Salve, Draco.

Nope, not you. Sorry if you took it to mean that, it wasn't my
intention. I've yet to start my personal crusade against you. Soon,
maybe. ;)

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] ATTN: Results of provincial inquiry
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:43:09 -0400

Salve

As I am sure you are aware, it is quite possible to skew the results of any
such poll depending on how the questions are worded. I would very much like
to see just what the people were asked, and what the exact responses were,
rather than your summary. For example, I think if you asked "Do you find the
land fund a laughable idea", your results would be different than had I (for
example) phrased the question.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:42
>
> Provincia Gallia recently held an inquiry regarding
> participation, taxes and the language policy. Here are the results.

<snip>

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: What to do with non-taxpayers
From:	marcusaemiliusscaurus@--------
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:31:27 -0000

Salvete omnes,

I have a few comments to make on this subject (Taxes as a whole).

1) i think I prefer the previous idea of saying the amount of money
asked for is that of a few meals, instead of $12, or $20, or any set
amount, simply because $12 is a lot for inhabitants of some countries.

2) I like this proposal, but I don't think we should ban non-payers
from being magistrates; why? Because some people might prefer to
show their dedication to Nova Roma by working rather than paying, and
tthis also limits the pool of available candidates.

Bene vale,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.


Subject:	[novaroma] The survey
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:47:41 +0200

Salve O Consul,

Here are the questions, so judge for yourself.

Vale bene,

<<<<<<Salve!

As the scriba of the propraetor, I had the idea of asking you a couple of questions regarding Nova Roma; more specifically regarding taxation and the language policy on the main list. Please be so kind as to respond to this questionnaire as soon as possible. Thanks in advance.

Comme le scriba du propr�teur, j'avais l'id�e de vous demander quelques questions concernant Nova Roma, et plus sp�cifique concernant des imp�ts et la politique linguistique sur la liste principale. Je vous prie avec politesse de me retourner cet sondage a.s.a.p. Merci en advance.

Als scriba van de propraetor had ik het idee om u enkele vragen te stellen in verband met Nova Roma, meerbepaald betreffende taxatie en het taalbeleid op de main list. Wees a.u.b. zo vriendelijk om zo vlug mogelijk te antwoorden op deze enqu�te. Dank bij voorbaat.

1. Would you pay a yearly membership fee/tax to Nova Roma of an estimated average of 12$ ?
1a. If not, why?
1b. If you do, do you think non-paying members should suffer "penalties"?
1. Payeriez-vous des imp�ts annuels pour Nova Roma, � une moyenne de 12$ ?
1a. Sinon, pourquoi?
1b. Si oui, pensez-vous que des membres non-payants devraient �tre "punis"?
1. Zou u jaarlijkse belastingen/lidgelden aan Nova Roma betalen, gemiddeld 12$ ?
1a. Indien niet, waarom?
1b. Indien wel, vindt u dat niet-betalende leden "gestraft" zouden moeten worden?

2. Do you agree with the language policy on the main list, that says that "non-English postings are not welcome if they are not accompanied by an English translation"?
2a. Do you have the main list? Why (not)?
2b. What languages do you speak?
2. �tes-vous d'accord avec la politique linguistique sur la liste principale, qui dit que "des postings non-anglais ne sont pas permis s'ils ne sont pas accompan�s d'une traduction en anglais"?
2a. Avez-vous la liste principale? Pourquoi (pas)?
2b. Quelles langues parlez-vous?
2. Bent u akkoord met het taalbeleid op de main list, die zegt dat "niet-Engelstalige postings niet welkom zijn tenzij vergezeld van een vertaling in het Engels"?
2a. Hebt u de main list? Waarom (niet)?
2b. Welke talen spreekt u?

3. Other remarks?
3. Des autres remarques?
3. Andere opmerkingen?

Thank you for taking the time.

Merci pour prendre le temps.

Dank u om de tijd te nemen.

Vale benee,
Sextus Apollonius Draco,
Procurator Galliae>>>>>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Introduction
From:	CW2ShaneEvans@--------
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:41:04 EDT

Salve Oppius, and thank you to all who have extended their hands in
friendship. I look forward to a wonderful time.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1354
From:	Calpurnia <darta_arelia@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 13:36:01 -0700 (PDT)

> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:59:23 -0500
> From: Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
> Subject: Re: A question regarding Gens
>
> Salve Calpurnia
>
> > I have a question: the paterfamilias for my gens
> is as
> > far as I can tell, relatively inactive. and I have
> no
> <amputatio>
> > really rather not do either, so i'm just stuck
> here
> > belonging to a gens I am the only active member of
> and
> > a paterfamilias who has pretty much dropped off
> the
> > face of the earth. I'd like some advice on what I
> > should do from here.
>
> I'm surprised the censores will not work with you on
> this, as:
> 1. there's no law on our books requiring a
> pater/materfamilias'
> permission to leave a gens.
> 2. you've divorced D Aucelius. In Roma Antiqua, a
> woman who was
> divorced left her husband's gens and returned to the
> gens of her
> father. In your case, I'd expect that you'd be free
> to either create
> your own new gens or join another existing one.
> 3. Decius Aucelius is inactive.
>
> Perhaps a solution would be to ask the censores to
> contact D Aucelius
> for you, with the understanding that you'd be
> declared materfamilias of
> Gens Aucelia if he didn't respond within a
> reasonable interval (perhaps
> a similar time frame to the 45 days specified in the
> recent "Edict
> Regarding Failure of Paterfamilias to respond to
> applications").
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus
> --
> "People do not like to think. If one thinks, one
> must reach
> conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant."
> -Helen Keller

Salve,
I am still exploring all options that have presented
themselves to me. I may opt to just find a new gens
and go from there. I hve recently recieved an e-mail
from D Aucelius, and am deciding the best way to
respond to it.
Vale,
Claudia Aucelia Calpurnia

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER SEVENTEEN
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 15:37:23 -0500

CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER SEVENTEEN

ADOPTION OF RULES OF ORDER FOR THE CONSILIUM PROVINCIA CANADA OCCIDENTALIS

24 Apr 2001

Salve All

I, Quintus Sertorius, Propraetor Canada Occidentalis, issue the following Edicta to announce the adoption of the following Rules of Order for the Consilium for the Provinica of Canda Occidentlis. I would like to thank the Propraetor for Thule, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, for the use for his very good rules of order for a Provincial Consilium.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius
Tribune
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

Rules of Order for the Consilium Provincia Canada Occidentalis

1. During the Consilium members will use the Egroup set up for the Consilium to discuss items on the Agenda.

2. The Propraetor will call the Consilium to order when he feels the new Agenda is full. The Consilium will continue for a period decided by the Propraetor(usually no more than ten days). During the Consilium the Propraetor will act as Chairman, if he hasn't appointed the Senior Legatus as his stand-in. The Propraetor will make the final decisions on all matters during the Consilium.

3. The Propraetor will table the Agenda for the Consilium at the start of the meeting. (Any citizen wanting to have an item placed on the Agenda should send an email to the Propraetor requesting such, and if the Propraetor agrees, that item may be placed on the next Consilium.)

4. The Propraetor, or another member of the Consilium appointed by the Propraetor in advance, will write a short introduction to each item on the Agenda. Each member of the Consilium will respond to each item in their reply to the Tabled Agenda sent out at the start of each Consilium by the Proraetor.

5. Each item can be debated until such time as the Propraetor deems that there has been enough input, he will then, if required, send an advisory note to move on to the next item. Once all the items on the Agenda have been covered there will be a Vote Email sent out by the Propraetor containing all the items to be voted on. All members of the Consilium will record their vote, along with a closing comment if they desire, in their reply to the Vote Email. If the Consilium casts their votes against an item on the Agenda, no final decision will be made on that item during that Consilium, and will be moved over to the next Consilium. This will allow time for the item to be further debated. At the next Consilium the Propraetor can than take what ever decision he deems proper.

6. The Propraetor will call an end to the Cosilium once all the items on the Agenda have been covered, and when he deems proper.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] The survey
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:50:38 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 15:48
>
> Here are the questions, so judge for yourself.

Many thanks. I do believe I'll take you up on that. :-)

> 1. Would you pay a yearly membership fee/tax to Nova Roma of an
> estimated average of 12$ ?
> 1a. If not, why?
> 1b. If you do, do you think non-paying members should
> suffer "penalties"?

This question is fairly enough worded, I'll grant. I do, however, question
the conclusion you offered in your earlier post that "tax in its present
form is getting a no from Gallia". Your survey only represents 27% of the
population of the province. Of those, only 14% subscribe to the main list,
and therefore would have access to the various arguments that have been put
forth.

Do 27% of the people, half of whom are completely ignorant of the debate,
really form the basis to draw a conclusion about the entire province? Your
conclusion is completely unfounded.

> 2. Do you agree with the language policy on the main list, that
> says that "non-English postings are not welcome if they are not
> accompanied by an English translation"?
> 2a. Do you have the main list? Why (not)?
> 2b. What languages do you speak?

This is complete rubbish and an outright lie on your part. That is not at
all what the official list policy says, and putting it in quotes like that
is deliberately misleading. Here, for your edification (since you were
obviously not to be bothered to look up the _actual_ list policy) is the
official list policy on language:

"XI. All posts to the list should be accompanied by an English translation
if they are written in another language. If you are unable to write in
English, or uncomfortable posting in English, please let me know and I will
be more than happy to facilitate your pairing with a translator who can help
you to do so. Posts in multiple languages are MORE than welcome, as long as
an English translation is included somewhere therein. Please note there is
no penalty for violating this policy on a "first time" basis, as it is
assumed that anyone doing so is simply in need of assistance and not
consciously choosing to violate list policy." (from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma/files/NovaRomaList.txt)

Your bias against the above-quoted policy is well-known, and has tainted the
results of your survey (perhaps that one person who disagreed with the
language policy other than yourself might have cast his vote the other way
had the actual facts been made available). How galling to you it must have
been when even that despicable misrepresentation of the actual policy didn't
obtain the result you desired. I wonder, though, since only 3 of your
respondents actually subscribe to the main list, what the relevance of this
question is?

I also question your conclusion (based, I am assuming on the fact that all
of your respondents speak more than one language); "Multilinguism has become
a must for European people; why not for the rest of us?"

The answer is, of course, when that multilingualism includes English (the de
facto auxiliary language of the world), those who already speak it (which
includes the vast majority of our cives including yourself) have no _need_
to learn another in order to make themselves understood. The mountain is
already coming to Mohammed; why should Mohammed betake himself to move?

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	[novaroma] Consul Germanicus' Taxpayer Proposal
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:01:31 -0700

Salvete Consul Germanice et Quiritibus;

All in all a very fair and excellent proposal!
I would certainly support a measure to move non-tax-paying
cives to the headcount tribe. My only questions:

1-Would this proposal apply to any 'federal' tax
proposal that was ultimately adopted? (i.e. membership
fees, Gens taxes, etc.)

2-Would the proposal have any bearing on any subsequent
two-tier taxation schedule such as national and
provincial taxes? Say in the situation where a civis
was 'paid up' nationally, but was behind in provincial
taxes.

Again nice work! I especially like the proposition
of proletarii not holding offices.

Bene valete,
Oppius
------------Original Message--------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:04:13 -0400
From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Subject: What to do with non-taxpayers

Salvete Quirites

A while ago I had posted the idea that Nova Roma could make a place for
Citizens who were unable or unwilling to pay taxes. Now, it seems, the idea
has come full circle, for I see the very question has come up again in the
general taxation discussion! Never one to overlook such a timely
opportunity, I would like to submit the following proposal for a lex.

Please note that this proposal _only_ deals with the question of what to do
with Citizens who do not pay taxes (for whatever reason). It does not have
anything to do with how much taxes are, how or when they're collected, what
exceptions may be granted, how they're allocated, or anything of that nature
(which is Constitutionally the job of the Senate).

<snipped>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What to do with non-taxpayers
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:50:24 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Consul Flavi Vedi Germanice.

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@--------> wrote:

(snipped)

> The brief overview of the proposed lex is that Citizens who do pay
> taxes are
> classified as assidui, and those who do not are classified as
> proletarii.
> Citizens who are proletarii would still be Citizens, and still have
> the
> right to vote, but would be gathered into a single Century designated
> for
> that purpose, and be relegated to the four Urban Tribes. Proletarii
> would
> also not be elegible to hold a magistracy or governorship.
>

Once again, Germanicus has proved his well known excellence. I
completely support this proposal, for I feel it is very coherent with
everything I have been posting on this list.

I would like to make a suggestion, though. Maybe scribae could be
exempted from taxes. In this way, citizens who cannot pay taxes will
still have a way out of the Proletarii. As most of these citizens will
probably be students, they will have enough time to dedicate to Nova
Roma. And, increasing in such way the number of candidates for scriba,
many magistrates will see the burden of governing the Republic
partially lessened.

Please, tell me what do you think about this idea. Thank you.

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Media Group
From:	SkaldElf@--------
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:39:29 EDT

Salve,

Did I hear correctly about the writing of stories? What storywriting form do
you write by any chance? Any poetry within the mix?

Vale,
Aeternia