| Subject: |
Ianus; site image |
| From: |
Decius Iunius Palladius <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232219108127031050199203252129208071" >amcgrath@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:48:50 -0500 (EST) |
|
On 17 Jan 2000 <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> wrote:
>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 10:43:46 PST
> From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a>
> Subject: Ianus
>
> Salvete, Quiriti!
Salve,
> I would just like to express my gratification at seeing the divine Augustus
> replaced by a rather more senior deity on the front page of the NR website.
> Not to wish to say anything derogatory about Divus Augustus publicly (he
> was, I admit, in his time the best emperor Roma had ever had 'til then),
> but... Ianus is the perfect choice, in my view: he's wholly Roman, born to
> the purple of divinity as you might say, and - of course - presides over
> beginnings and entries. What could be better?
Yes, nothing like having a dull image that most people, especially
newcomers will not recognize as being Roman (or recognize as Ianus for
that matter). An image of the Capitoline Wolf would have been ideal and
instantly reconizable if one insists on having yet another image.
> From: Rick Brett
> Subject: Re: Ianus
> Salve, Nicolaus! I often wondered why Augustus Caesar was welcoming
> visitors to the republican NovaRoma website....although an excellent
> administrator, he was definitely not a republican. He can't even be
> appreciated as a Republican Deity because he was not deified until after his
> death.
You make the mistake of thinking of Nova Roma as Republican Roman. It
is not. While we have a Republican form of government, Nova Roma is heir
to all things Roman, imperial *as much* as republican. Augustus was an
excellent and easily recognizable symbol of that and was the image on the
opening page of the Nova Roma website from day one of Nova Roma (though
there was a 6 or 7 month period when it was not on the site last
year). The current image of Ianus leaves--to say the least--something to
be desired, though Gn. Tarquinius is to be commended for the enthusiasm
with which he is carrying out his work. If some people insist upon a new
image, perhaps something more recognizable and appropriate might be
found. My personal favorite would be the Capitoline Wolf. There are
excellent images available of it.
Valete,
Decius Iunius Palladius
|
| Subject: |
Inquiry for NR website |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:15:12 -0800 |
|
Salvete Omnes
In an effort to foster the various face to face meetings. I am thinking
of preparing a small database listing the number of civies we have per
country. That way, anyone in California will know how many civies we
have....just like everyone in Germany or Britian will know exactly how
many citizens reside in those countries. That way, anyone sponsering an
event can get all necessary e-mail addresses (since not all civies are
on the NR list).
Please let me know if this would be a good idea.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
|
| Subject: |
Re: Inquiry for NR website |
| From: |
"A. Artorius Arius Sarmaticus" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=061166091213158134036102228219114187071048139" >sarmaticus@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:26:57 YEKT |
|
Sslvete omnes,
this IS indeed a good idea. I myself was wandering all the time, that are
the populations of different NR Provincii, but just didn't dare to ask...;-)
AVLVS ARTORIVS ARIVS SARMATICVS, CIVIS ET BARBARVS NOVAE ROMAE ETIAM
PROPRAETOR SARMATIAE PROVINCIAE
LIBERTAS INAESTIMABILIS RES EST
VALETE IN PACE
>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>Reply-To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
>To: NovaRoma <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>, Britannia <a href="mailto:britannia@--------" >britannia@--------</a>,
><a href="mailto:novaromavizantia@--------" >novaromavizantia@--------</a>
>Subject: [novaroma] Inquiry for NR website
>Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:15:12 -0800
>
>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>Salvete Omnes
>
>In an effort to foster the various face to face meetings. I am thinking
>of preparing a small database listing the number of civies we have per
>country. That way, anyone in California will know how many civies we
>have....just like everyone in Germany or Britian will know exactly how
>many citizens reside in those countries. That way, anyone sponsering an
>event can get all necessary e-mail addresses (since not all civies are
>on the NR list).
>
>Please let me know if this would be a good idea.
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>Censor
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [britannia] Database |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:05:21 -0800 |
|
Pat Washburn wrote:
> From: Pat Washburn <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> Quoth Sulla:
>
> >In an effort to foster the various face to face meetings. I am thinking
> >of preparing a small database listing the number of civies we have per
> >country. That way, anyone in California will know how many civies we
> >have....just like everyone in Germany or Britian will know exactly how
> >many citizens reside in those countries. That way, anyone sponsering an
> >event can get all necessary e-mail addresses (since not all civies are
> >on the NR list).
>
> Maybe have it an opt-in list, so that people who are jealous of their
> privacy can keep their addresses off it? I can't imagine why anyone
> WOULDN'T want to know what Nova Romans were nearby (or at least in the
> same general jurisdiction), but there is that confidentiality pledge on
> the Web site.
>
I completely agree...which is why before addresses would be released....we
(the Censors) would get consent from the civies before we released their
e-mail addresses. :)
Mainly, this list would just list various countries and the number of
citizens. That is it. :)
Sulla Felix
>
> Patricia Cassia . Quaestor, Nova Roma
> <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=197063113185056135042082190036" >p--------@--------</a>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: Inquiry for NR website |
| From: |
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/td>
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:31:21 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Censor Sulla;
I think the idea an excellent one, although not a new one. I have been
trying to get that kind of information about the Nova Britannia
Provincia since Cin was in the Consul's seat. Apparently the Pro-Consul
got some information along those lines, but it was in some way garbled
and could not be shared.
I think the project an excellent one and would request the following
actions:
--Provide each Provincial Governor with a list of those NR Citizens in
that Provincia;
--Hold those lists in a separate area ready to be provided to those who
can show a need and right to have the information;
--Update the lists every quarter;
--Announce to the NR Citizens as each Provincia Govenor receives the
listing;
--Develop and announce a rough schedule for that effort to NR Citizens.
I thank you for the sharing of this idea, and I urge upon you a plan
similar to the plan stated above.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Consul
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
|
| Subject: |
Re: Inquiry for NR website |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 04:26:17 -0800 |
|
Thanks for the ideas Audens...I will definately see about trying to
implement them....If any governor requests the names of civies in their
provinces, I dont see a problem releasing it. If it is in compliance with
the Lex Cornelia Privatus de Rebus. If any confidental information is
requested such as e-mail addy or such, before releasing it I would need
confirmation from the individual citizens beforehand.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
James Mathews wrote:
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> Salve, Censor Sulla;
>
> I think the idea an excellent one, although not a new one. I have been
> trying to get that kind of information about the Nova Britannia
> Provincia since Cin was in the Consul's seat. Apparently the Pro-Consul
> got some information along those lines, but it was in some way garbled
> and could not be shared.
>
> I think the project an excellent one and would request the following
> actions:
>
> --Provide each Provincial Governor with a list of those NR Citizens in
> that Provincia;
>
> --Hold those lists in a separate area ready to be provided to those who
> can show a need and right to have the information;
>
> --Update the lists every quarter;
>
> --Announce to the NR Citizens as each Provincia Govenor receives the
> listing;
>
> --Develop and announce a rough schedule for that effort to NR Citizens.
>
> I thank you for the sharing of this idea, and I urge upon you a plan
> similar to the plan stated above.
>
> Vale, Respectfully;
> Marcus Minucius Audens
> Consul
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU!
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Re: Inquiry for NR website |
| From: |
"RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:28:03 -0500 |
|
Salvete Censor Luci Corneli et alii
Your idea sounds very good to me. I would like to applaud you censores, and
the webmaster, for getting off to such a productive start this year.
As long as you adhere to your law on privacy in handling peoples' e-mail
addresses and other contact information, a database such as you describe
should be very helpful.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>
>Please let me know if this would be a good idea.
>
|
| Subject: |
Praedicatio Mariae gentis de civium albo |
| From: |
"RMerullo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=194232192180194153138149203043129208071" >rmerullo@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:42:49 -0500 |
|
Salvete Censores Flavi Vedi et Luci Corneli
There is no Gaius Marius Oppidifinis Orator in gens Maria. And, since there
is (thankfully) no gens Maria Oppidifinis, this person should be removed
from the album civium. If he wishes to apply for membership in our gens, I
would welcome that; if he wishes to apply to the censores for creation of a
new gens, that is his prerogative; or, he can petition another gens to
accept him if he wants. I recommend that his voter code remain valid, since
it his gens membership that is invalid, not the entirety of his status
within Nova Roma.
This person was accidentally granted citizenship under that name last year,
without the approval of Glauca or me. I tried several times to reach him as
soon as I became paterfamilias, but his address did not work.
Again, there is no Gaius Marius Oppidifinis Orator.
Valete
C Marius Merullus
paterfamilias
Mariae gentis
|
| Subject: |
Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
"Nicolaus Moravius" <a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:20:21 PST |
|
Salvete, Quiriti!
In response to two observations made by Decius Iunius Palladius on the
recent appearance of Ianus at the forefront of the NR website:
>Yes, nothing like having a dull image that most people, especially
>newcomers will not recognize as being Roman (or recognize as Ianus for
>that matter).
1. Dulness is in the eye of the beholder: for me, entities with two heads
are visually more interesting than entities with only one.
2. As an aid to recognition, the image of Ianus is helpfully captioned:
'JANUS'.
3. How do we know that the statue of Augustus that used to be there is
Augustus, and not, say, Decius Iunius Palladius?
>An image of the Capitoline Wolf would have been ideal and
>instantly reconizable if one insists on having yet another image.
4. I have a great affection for her, too (she ought to have a name as well,
I feel). And I suppose there's nothing to stop us having more than one image
on the front page?
Pace,
Vado.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" target="_top" >http://www.hotmail.com</a>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:09:42 -0800 |
|
I have some web images I've saved of the Etruscan statue known as the
Capitoline wolf,
but they are all fairly small images.
Nicolaus Moravius wrote:
> >An image of the Capitoline Wolf would have been ideal and
> >instantly reconizable if one insists on having yet another image.
>
> 4. I have a great affection for her, too (she ought to have a name
> as well,
> I feel).
My Classical Archeology instuctor(-rix), Professor Dr. Andreina Leanza
Becker-Colonna,always refered to her by the name Luperca. Over the
years I have heard other people refer
to the wolf by that name.
C. Aelius Ericius
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:15:24 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/18/00 10:29:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a --------="/post/novaroma?protectID=091089014007127031215056228219114187071048139" >n_moravius@--------</a> writes:
<<
Salvete, Quiriti!
In response to two observations made by Decius Iunius Palladius on the
recent appearance of Ianus at the forefront of the NR website:
Palladius:
>Yes, nothing like having a dull image that most people, especially
>newcomers will not recognize as being Roman (or recognize as Ianus for
>that matter).
Vado:
1. Dulness is in the eye of the beholder: for me, entities with two heads
are visually more interesting than entities with only one.
Cassius:
True enough, although the modern term of being "two faced" might well be
coming up in the minds of some folks as they check us out for the first time.
Not that the Augustus image didn't have it's own associations! The Ianvs
image is better as far as Roman symbolism itself.. even though I WILL keep an
eye open for a "newer" image of Ianvs in the hopes that the front page can be
made a little more visually pleasing.
Vado:
2. As an aid to recognition, the image of Ianus is helpfully captioned:
'JANUS'.
Cassius:
However, the wording *underneath* the image still says "Augustus". That word
shows briefly in the space before the actual picture of Janus loads and is
visible on screen...
Vado:
3. How do we know that the statue of Augustus that used to be there is
Augustus, and not, say, Decius Iunius Palladius?
Cassius:
Palladius wears glasses! ;)
Palladius:
>An image of the Capitoline Wolf would have been ideal and
>instantly reconizable if one insists on having yet another image.
Vado:
4. I have a great affection for her, too (she ought to have a name as well,
I feel). And I suppose there's nothing to stop us having more than one image
on the front page?
Cassius:
I guess I'm just fussy... I've NEVER been real pleased with the front page. I
wan't too fond of the Augustus image, although I find a simple line drawing
even less inviting if that's possible. It just kinda looks like we couldn't
come up with a really professional graphic, which we couldn't.
More than one image on a page might be interesting, so long as the design
wasn't so overdone that it looked cheesy. If I got to vote on an image I'd be
interested in seeing what an overview image of Rome itself might look like in
that space...
Vale,
Cassius
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:20:10 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/18/00 2:11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< My Classical Archeology instuctor(-rix), Professor Dr. Andreina Leanza
Becker-Colonna,always refered to her by the name Luperca. Over the
years I have heard other people refer
to the wolf by that name. >>
I've heard her referred to as Lupa.
And yes...I believe this image would be ideal for a welcome icon. I like
Ianus...but not crazy about the image currently being used.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:22:21 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/18/00 2:17:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; writes:
<< More than one image on a page might be interesting, so long as the design
wasn't so overdone that it looked cheesy. If I got to vote on an image I'd
be
interested in seeing what an overview image of Rome itself might look like
in
that space... >>
I was never really a fan of a "jump page" to begin with. It's just another
page a user has to click through to get to the real website. But that's just
my e-business marketing personality coming through.
--Dexippus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:14:31 -0800 |
|
> 3. How do we know that the statue of Augustus that used to be there is
> Augustus, and not, say, Decius Iunius Palladius?
Well to answer this question, that pic or a copy of that pic has been in
numerous textbooks I used in High School and College. :) From History Class,
Art History Class, and ancient Political philosophy class. :)
Sulla Felix
Censor
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:42:01 -0800 |
|
I am in complete agreement with Dexippus on the "jump page" point.
I greatly dislike the things.
That said, I'm sending the poor image I have of Luperca in a separate
post.
Ericius
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> In a message dated 1/18/00 2:17:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; writes:
>
> << More than one image on a page might be interesting, so long as
> the design
> wasn't so overdone that it looked cheesy. If I got to vote on an
> image I'd
> be
> interested in seeing what an overview image of Rome itself might
> look like
> in
> that space... >>
>
> I was never really a fan of a "jump page" to begin with. It's just
> another
> page a user has to click through to get to the real website.
[snip]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Luperca [attachment] |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:43:21 -0800 |
|
Here is the Luperca pic. The background fouls it up.
Someone with a scanner should be able to get a better
pic out of a book.
Ericius.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:45:20 -0800 |
|
So much for attachments when "non-text portions have been removed".
Forget it.
Ericius.
Razenna wrote:
> From: Raz-------- <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a>
>
> I am in complete agreement with Dexippus on the "jump page" point.
> I greatly dislike the things.
>
> That said, I'm sending the poor image I have of Luperca in a
> separate
> post.
>
> Ericius
>
> <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
>
> > From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
> >
> > In a message dated 1/18/00 2:17:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; writes:
> >
> > << More than one image on a page might be interesting, so long as
> > the design
> > wasn't so overdone that it looked cheesy. If I got to vote on an
> > image I'd
> > be
> > interested in seeing what an overview image of Rome itself might
> > look like
> > in
> > that space... >>
> >
> > I was never really a fan of a "jump page" to begin with. It's
> just
> > another
> > page a user has to click through to get to the real website.
>
> [snip]
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> [ONElist Sponsor]
> Please click above to support our sponsor
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:02:41 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/18/2000 11:12:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=194166216056078116169218163036129208" >raz--------@--------</a> writ--------br>
<< by the name Luperca >>
Salve, I was taught that was the name also.
Vale
QFM
|
| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite |
| From: |
|
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:06:57 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/18/2000 11:17:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=137166066112082162090021200165114253071048139" >C--------us622@--------</--------; writes:
<< I guess I'm just fussy... I've NEVER been real pleased with the front
page. I
wan't too fond of the Augustus image, although I find a simple line drawing
even less inviting if that's possible. It just kinda looks like we couldn't
come up with a really professional graphic, which we couldn't.
>>
Salvete,
I have a great scan of an Etruscan statue of the she-wolf. I'll pass it
Tarquinius.
Vale
Q. Fabius.
|
| Subject: |
Re: Inquiry for NR website |
| From: |
George VanDeWater <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=081166234150056086048038203219129208071" >vandewge@--------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:35:42 -0700 |
|
Salvete Censors et alii
I too believe your idea is a good one. I would also applaude the censors and webmaster on such a great job. A list such as this would be a great help in strenghtening the work in the provincia.
Valete
G. Africanus Secundus
>From: Lucius Corn--------s Sulla <a hr--------/post/novaroma?prot--------D=243128192154082190130232203077129208071" >al--------us@--------</a>
>
>
>Please let me know if this would be a good idea.
>
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Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in
forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons!
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| Subject: |
Imperium |
| From: |
<--------lass="msghead"> &l--------href="/pos--------varoma?pro--------ID=034166250009056116130232203056129208071" &g--------bienus@--------&l--------&g--------td>
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:17:31 US/Central |
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Salvete quirites
In my capacity as a curia lictor of Nova Roma, I hereby join with the other
members of the Comitia Curiata in conferring Imperium upon the Magistrates for
this calendar year.
Valete,
T Labienus Fortunatus
18 January 2000 CE,
AD XV KAL FEB MMDCCLIII
AUC
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| Subject: |
Re: Ianus: Foresite and Hindsight |
| From: |
"M. O--------ius Germani--------#34; <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a> |
| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:49:43 -0600 (CST) |
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, Nicolaus Moravius wrote:
> 1. Dulness is in the eye of the beholder: for me, entities with two heads
> are visually more interesting than entities with only one.
For me, a three dimensional statue of a great man in a dramatic pose is
visually more interesting than a line drawing of a head in profile.
> 3. How do we know that the statue of Augustus that used to be there is
> Augustus, and not, say, Decius Iunius Palladius?
Its identity has been thoroughly established. His facial features are
consistent with those on coins and other portraits. That particular statue
was dug up at a villa belonging to Livia, his wife.
> >An image of the Capitoline Wolf would have been ideal and
> >instantly reconizable if one insists on having yet another image.
>
> 4. I have a great affection for her, too (she ought to have a name as well,
> I feel). And I suppose there's nothing to stop us having more than one image
> on the front page?
To symbolize the Republic specifically, the wolf is the ideal image.
It's recognized immediately by just about everyone.
I do prefer the Augustus statue, though. I have a plaster bust taken
from it at home. He represents the grandeur and majesty of Rome at
the height of its power, and his gesture seems to welcome visitors
to the site.
But then, I'm prejudiced, as you can see from the gens I chose two
years ago...
M. OCTAVIUS GERMANICUS
--
Matt Hu--------(<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=180075219163056135025082190036" >hu----------------</a>) | "They that give up essential liberty
konoko Network Consulting | to obtain a little temporary safety
Graveyards of Chicago: | deserve neither liberty nor safety."
<a href="http://www.graveyards.com" target="_top" >http://www.graveyards.com</a> | - Benjamin Franklin (1759)
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| Subject: |
NR Front Page |
| From: |
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| Date: |
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:37:32 -0800 |
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BTW, Luperca and the kids are up.
Ericius.
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