Subject:	Re: [Fwd: statement from priesthood serving military Pagans]
From:	dean6886@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:57:03 -0500 (CDT)

Just out of coincidence I see that Rep Bob Barr will be in a
scheduled chat on Talk City -- the LiveAtlanta room at 11:00 AM today.
If anyone would like to confront Rep. Barr and ask him why he wishes to
take away peoples freedom of religion within the armed forces and if
that should also apply to Hindus, Shintoists, Buddists, Taoists, and any
other religious practice that he isn't personally affiliated with.

Gaius Drusus Domitianus

Subject:	Re: I'm tired of resignations
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:12:23 +0100

Salve Dex!

>. If you consider them to be un-Roman, never-Roman, or
>whatever, I'm sure they don't care. That's why they're all leaving in the
>first place because NR has become in their minds a finger-pointing,
>ego-mania, "I hold the ropes", oligarchy.
Dictatorship is allowed by the Constitution during emergencies... and that
is Roman.

Vale

Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Ludi Apollinaris
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:48:05 +0100

Salvete omnes

As you may know, the Ludi Apollinaris stretch from July 6th to July 13th.
They included both gladiatorial games (we had them yesterday) and cultural
events such as theatre plays and literature contests.

A sugestion from civis Gn. Tarquinius Caesar urged me to institute the
latter contests. His pious words were:
"I can think of no better way to honor the God of light, the deadly archer,
divine Apollo."

As this contest is being held for the 1st time, the works presented shall
not be necessarily original, i.e. you can simply choose a text from a
ancient Roman author. Nevertheless, original works are encouraged.

The scheduling is the following:

July 11th: Poetry contest.
July 12th: Prose contest.
July 13th: Theatre play contest.

The days were chosen as to give the weekend for preparation.

Rules are the following:
- The work shall be posted both publicly to <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> and
privately to the Aedilis Plebis (<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>) in the due day (see
scheduling above) with:
- Subject = Ludi Apollinaris - X contest
(where X stands for Poetry, Prose or Theatre)
- Content = Latin text + English translation; followed by the names of
the author and sender. In case that the author is not the sender (i.e. the
work is not original) the complete reference of the text must be included.
- A sender can participate by sending one text only.
- After the Ludi are over, the texts shall be evaluated by a juri, and the
winner texts shall be made available on the NR Web site.

Feel free to ask if you have any doubt.

Valete omnes

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis et coetera

Subject:	Priesthood Appointment
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:29:41 -0400

Salvete Omnes!

It is with great pleasure that I hereby announce Marcus Cornelius Felix as a
member of the Collegium Pontificum with the title of Pontiff. This decision
was made in consultation with our esteemed Pontifex Maximus, Marcus Cassius
Julianus, and I am certain that he will make a fine addition to the ranks of
the priesthood of our fair Republic, and shall prove invaluable in our
restoration of the rites of the Religio Romana.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator

Subject:	Oaths of office
From:	william wheeler wuffa@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 07:06:39 +0100

Salve

M.Cornelius Felix sends Greeting to all Romae

OPPPSSSSS!
I just was on the web site and guess what it said oaths have to be
posted
on BOTH the email list and the mesg Board at the site
so I just did so for MY office of Quaestor
and as I will am now
doing administrative support services for Flavius Vedius Germanicus
I need any one who is a officer of state of Nova Roma to send there
email addy's to me and there ICQ# if they have one ( I LIKE ICQ BETTER
THEN AOL IM) my ICQ # is 10467379
Vale!

Subject:	Re: Speech given at today's Ludi Romani
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:00:13 EDT

In a message dated 7/6/99 8:40:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> writes:

<< held today under the auspices of Antonius Gryllus
Graecus, >>

I didn't know that Graecus was an Augur. Can anyone tell me when that
happened? Dictatorial decree?

<>

That's nice of you, but why the probation? As I recall, there was a furry
during probationary calls when Germanicus came back to Nova Roma and wanted
to be reinstituted into the Senate. There was much backlash when some of us
asked that a probation of six months be set since there was still concern
over why he left in the first place. So now Cincinnatus is kicked
out...re-citizenized...but given a probation of a year and a half? C'mon
folks! Stop the nonsense!

I don't mean to be critical, but this is looking like a personal attack and
an attempt to keep Cincinnatus silent.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Speech given at today's Ludi Romani
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:03:34 +0100

Salvete

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
>In a message dated 7/6/99 8:40:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
><a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> writes: >
><< held today under the auspices of Antonius Gryllus
> Graecus, >>
>
>I didn't know that Graecus was an Augur. Can anyone tell me when that
>happened? Dictatorial decree?
LOL! Just a few rethorics, Dex! No, I'm not Augur.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Re: I'm tired of resignations
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:28:52 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 5:11:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
writes:

<< Dictatorship is allowed by the Constitution during emergencies... and that
is Roman. >>

I'm not arguing that. But idly following one is not.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: [Fwd: statement from priesthood serving military Pagans]
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:27:39 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 3:57:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114056113185089095081021203102129208071" >dean6886@--------</a> --------es:

<< ust out of coincidence I see that Rep Bob Barr will be in a
scheduled chat on Talk City -- the LiveAtlanta room at 11:00 AM today. >>

How does one get there?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Roman Army Sandles
From:	Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 14:38:09 GMT

Salve
I haven't heard of them, but I work for an e-commerce company, and the terms
they offer sound very good. Any kind of return policy, especially one with a
nice amount of time allowed, is always a good sign.
Vale
Lucina Iunia Cypria

Subject:	Re: Ludi Apollinaris
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:38:25 -0400 (EDT)

Antonio Grilo;

I think that suggestion an excellent one. To piggy-back upon that idea,
it might be inclusive to add other areas of endeavor in the Roman
Culture which could in time become a "Museum" or "Collection" of Sorts
of those things of NR creations and favorites..

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Oaths of office
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" germanicus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:46:38 -0400

Salve,

> I just was on the web site and guess what it said oaths have to be
> posted
> on BOTH the email list and the mesg Board at the site

As legally-appointed Dictator, I hereby alter that requirement. The oath of
office may henceforth be issued in any officially-sanctioned Nova Roma forum
in front of three or more witnesses (such as the email list, the message
board, a public event, etc.).

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Dictator

Subject:	(no subject)
From:	william wheeler wuffa@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 07:56:09 +0100

Salve
I am Looking for the email addy for Julius Otho Octavianus .
Vale

Subject:	Oath of office of Antonius Gryllus Graecus for Senator
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:03:25 +0100

I, Antonius Gryllus Graecus do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of
Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the
Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Antonius Gryllus Graecus swear to do honor
to the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the
Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Antonius Gryllus Graecus further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Senator to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Senator and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities
attendant thereto.

Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Announcement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:30:23 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma, Greetings;

I have applied to Dictator Germanicus for permission to continue with NR
as a citizen. I have not requested the restoration of any office
political or honorary, as I feel that my inconvenience to you and to all
my special friends did not warrant such. Dictator Germanicus has
generously and graciously welcomed me back to NR and I am most
appreciative of this fact.

This announcement is also an apology to all those on this list for a
terribe temper that I am unfortunately endowed with. I usually manage
to keep it under close control, but the effects of the last week or so,
resulted in the breaking of that control, which I greatly regret. My
only excuse is that I was roughly used by former friends and was so
enaged at the handling that I took immediate action without considering
my options over a period of time.

So, therefore, I stand before you as Marcus Minucius Audens, in penance
for my error in judgement and causing pain and anxiety to any person in
NR who depended upon me, and whom I failed when I resigned. I have
corresponded with five particular friends who have urged me not to leave
and to seek to continue with NR. They know who they are, and for their
particular interest in me, and encouragement I am extremely grateful.

I have offered my services to the Dictator Germanicus, poor as such
might be, and ask of the Commanders of Legios XXIV and VI by copy of
this letter, permission to re-enter the Sodalist Militum for the purpose
of continuing my studies in Roman Engineering and Cartography. I have
offered explanations of my political actions prior to my resignation to
all who evidenced an interest, with full explanations to various of the
existing officers of NR. I now consider that a closed book, and will
not re-open again those pages without great pain and anxiety.

Lastly, but far from least, I apologize to the Gods Of Rome who watch
over this community. I most humbly ask their understanding of my human
faults and grant me their forgivness and good will. As the Gods well
know, I will not be able to hear any response from them, but it is my
belief that such a response will be refected in the citizens of NR in
times to come.

Thank you all for your most kind attention to this sad explanation;


Vale; Citizens of Nova Roma;
Very Respectfully and Most Humbly;

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:35:49 GMT

Welcome back Audens you were missed.
Vale
Lucina Iunia Cypria

Subject:	Registration
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:38:00 -0400 (EDT)

Would the current Web-Master of Novaroma@ onelist please add the
following name to the above list to enable me to get some additional
space for the retention of information received through the list. It is
the same person in both cases, but it will enable me to be better
equipped to deal with surges of messages on the internet:

<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=174166091098194233162168004077006088136213139046209" >MarcusAudens@--------</a>

Please contact me when you receive this message, and I thank you for
your consideration.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:40:58 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 12:30:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< This announcement is also an apology to all those on this list for a
terribe temper that I am unfortunately endowed with. I usually manage
to keep it under close control, but the effects of the last week or so,
resulted in the breaking of that control, which I greatly regret. My
only excuse is that I was roughly used by former friends and was so
enaged at the handling that I took immediate action without considering
my options over a period of time. >>

Now bend over and let me give you your 50 lashes!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Welcome Back
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:42:47 -0400 (EDT)

I thank you extremely for yor kind words. I am glad to once again be in
NR. You most kind welcome back is much appreciated.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Venator Resurgans!
From:	Steven Robinson amgunn@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 12:05:15 -0700

Hailsa Allir!

I'm retransmitting as the message didn't get through universally the first
time.

In addition, a very warm welcome back to Marcus Minucius Audens, whom I am
proud to call friend.

Vertu Saell - Piparskegg, called Venator amongst the Romans

=====================================================================
Salus et Fortuna Omnes!!!

WOW!!! I go away for a couple of weeks and...

Primus: My trip into the Theodish Heartland was very instructive and
energizing. I would trust these people to house-sit while my wife and I
were away. They have been at the work of re-awakening the pre Christian
Anglo-Saxon ways for over 30 years. They do a fine job, religiously and
socially. I am getting feedback that as the first Asatruar invited to
attend one of their religious celebrations in many years, I proved a worthy
guest, who is welcome to re-visit.

Secondus: Talk about growing pains! Almost 500 messages in my e-mail
backlog, with getting the lists as digests! I am not concerned about what
led up to the current situation, save as an object lesson in how NOT to do
things. But to grow, you stumble and hurt yourself (and others) sometimes.
I hope that on further reflection resignations and other leave-taking will
be reconsidered. I have seen very few words written here which did not
reflect Romaness (save Festus and his offspring). We all want to help -Roma
Resurgans-, unfortunately: 100 Romans = 1349 opinions and methods.

Tertius: I don't abandon my commitments, however rough the road. Just my
way.

I, Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the Honor
of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the People and
Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator swear to do
Honor to the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue
the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Quaestor Pro Tempore to the best of my
abilities.

On my Honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman People and by Their Will and Favor, do I accept the
position of Quaestor Pro Tempore and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities thereto.

Quartus: I shall, if the Office of the Dictator approves, keep the Sodalis
pro Coquus et Coqueror as a part of Nova Roma. Under that, the Mead Manual
is still available. Any moneys which I had heretofore dedicated as a
donative for the future of Nova Roma shall be held in escrow until such time
as we have a good plan for the future. (US$5 donation plus US$3 postage =
US$8, e-mail for details on ordering.)

Quintus: To all those with whom I have had private conversation over the
past year (Hej! This month is my One Year Anniversary of being a
Citizen!!!), It's been ugly recently, harsh words have been too often
expressed, feelings have been hurt... But, we have had Joyful moments: the
birth of Lapis (congrats Crystallina on entering the Roman Priesthood),
Noct'a coming to join Sulla, gladness at Germanicus returning, new Cives
entering the New City, Sodalities formed, ethereal friendships made (for how
can we be as but shadows to each other, no matter how clever and courteous
our words on screen may be if we can not hear one another's voice, see one
another's eyes, clasp one another's hand?)... We are all Roman (well one or
two of us are half-Roman), isn't it worth some heartache if we can forge a
community? Should the monuments we leave our posterity be made of sand or
bronze? The drudge work of digging the footings and laying the foundation
stones is dirty, tiring and thankless. In our fatigue, let us remember
-Roma Resurgans- and continue to work through the pain and tears.

mea sententia

In Amicus et Fidelis - Venator -Res Publica Roma Resurgans-

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:06:17 -0400 (EDT)

Dexippus;

I thank you for your "unusual" welcome, even if in some situations it
might be viewed as a little extreme!! I thank you for your kind
thoughts and your particular welcome. I will treasure it as a truly
unique invitation and one to be considered at long length (and
distance)!!!.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Venator Resurgans!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:11:41 -0400 (EDT)

Venator;

I thank you for your very kind words. I just spoke with another friend
who labeled me stubborn and so I am. However, I am also sensitive to
your compliment and thank you for expressing it yet again..

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:44:45 -0500

My dear Audens,

Don't be a silly. We are all guilty of 'lapses'. OK, I am anyway.

Crys
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina

Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach the ways of peace.
Virgil

ICQ# 38493770
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:51:55 -0400 (EDT)

Chrys and Coy.

I thank you dear lady for your kind comments. Yes, lapses are common,
but lapses that hurt other people are at the very least to be learned
from and contiemplated. Your most kind words are good to hear. I thank
you for their presentation and value you always for the thought.

Marcus Mincius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	The Sacred Geese!
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:56:14 -0500

Salvete,

I just wanted to let everyone know that I will have to wait until this
weekend to finish the official alter to Juno in my home. I am also
working on an online alter, but that isn't coming together the way I
would like.

I also wanted to say that as it would be my position to keep the
sacred geese, I have asked and received permission from my
husband to get geese once we move from the apartment t a house
with a yard.

NOW ..... who would like to tell me just how one picks or makes
the sacred gees sacred? <G>


Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes

Subject:	Re: The Sacred Geese!
From:	Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:02:14 GMT

Salve Crystallina

I'd imagine that you would get the geese (since there are no
sacred-geese-r-us stores) and then do a rite to sanctify them to Iuno.
But that's just my guess.:)
Vale
Cypria

Subject:	Re: Welcome Back (The Flyover!)
From:	Marius Fimbria legion6@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:09:24 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete Quirites...and Marce Minuci Audens most particularly......

....In honor of your hoped-for, eagerly-awaited, and now
actually-realized return, I have requested a flyover by my own
Legionary Expeditionary Air Force (jet-pack equipped)...and here they
come now.....!!

........ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ======= (-:|})<
........ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ======= (-:|})<
........ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ======= (-:|})<
........ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ======= (-:|})< ~~~~ ===== (-:|})<
........ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ======= (-:|})<
........ ~~~~~~~~~~~ ======= (-:|})<
........ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ======= (-:|})<

Welcome Back, Minuci Audens!!!!
---
__________ _<~) __________
<-\\\\@@@@@) /##\ (@@@@@////-> Märia Villarroel <a href="/po--------ovaroma?protectID=034056178009193116148218000036129208" >legion6@--------</a>
<-\\\@@@@(#####@@@@///-> Historical Re-Creationist
<-\\\*##*///-> and Citizen of Rome
o---<<<<||SPQR||>>>>---o Latin lessons, History lectures
///\\\ Role-playing Games, too!

aka Lucius Marius Fimbria on the weekends

Subject:	Re: Welcome Back (The Flyover!)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:34:01 -0400 (EDT)

Marius Fimbria:

Thank you for the kind words and great flyover welcome back. You have
great ideas.

Since you are now in command of the Sodilitas Militum in light of a
previous message to the affect that your were to be Vice-Commander with
George Metz as the second Vce - Commander, I now ask your permission to
re-join the Sodalitas Militum to continue my studies.

I thank you so much for the great welcome, and please pass to your
Aerial Corps my pleasure and admiration for their intricate tactics.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:58:51 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 1:06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> --------es:

<< I thank you for your "unusual" welcome, even if in some situations it
might be viewed as a little extreme!! I thank you for your kind
thoughts and your particular welcome. I will treasure it as a truly
unique invitation and one to be considered at long length (and
distance)!!!. >>

LOL...I hope you didn't take it the wrong way Audens! I never felt you were
gone so it seemed foolish for me to say "welcome back". And I don't believe
you owe any of us an apology for it...thus the crack about taking your
lashes. : )

In peace my friend....

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:07:19 -0400 (EDT)

Dex;

I take your point, of course. and was certainly not offended. I knew
exactly what you meant and honor you for the saying of it. However, as
previously labeled I am a very stubborn person (bull-headed too I am
told) and when I think I have to do something then it gets done,
regardless of cost. My feeling is that I must first satisfy the "inner
man" and after that all endeavors are easier and much more pleasant.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Concerning the Religio
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:21:13 EDT

Dear Citizens,

For sometime now I have been questioning the position of the Religio within
the realm of Nova Roma amidst all the politics and games. I, and others,
have seen our beloved faith paraded in front of us as a means of drawing us
into citizenship and then being left waiting for some kind of fruition to
happen.

The Pontiffical College was never completely set up. Only 2 (now one) of
appointed Augurs were selected. Priesthoods went unfulfilled. Rituals never
organized or executed. (and hey, I understand we are far between each
other...but NR's purpose was to restore the Religio Romana and in this we
have failed. We have done nothing to promote the Religio outside of NR to
the public let alone on the inside to ourselves. Some of us keep to the
daily rites of the Lararium but I believe this is as far as it goes).

We did have one major accomplishment with the formation of the Vestal order.
After much debate, our beloved Flavia Claudia drafted a Vestal Proposal which
was adopted and put into affect. For one year, Flavia Claudia held the
Vestal Flame for Nova Roma and continued to do so after her term was up.
Alas, now she has left Nova Roma -- a victim of the politics that plagues our
micro-nation. And with her, the Vestal Flame has left as well.

Citizens, we are in dark times. We have foregone our Republic in favor for a
Dictatorship. "IMPERIAL Rome Is Reborn". We are constantly bickering
amongst ourselves and pointing fingers at those so often felt need blaming.
And in doing so we have lost our connection to the Gods and Goddesses with
whom we pledged allegiance. We have foregone our committment to the Religio
Romana and this deterioration of our nation is our harvest!

It is not my intention here to speak against those measures taken to "fix"
our micro-nation. It is no secret that I do not favor a Dictatorship of any
king (given Roman historiocity or not). And when I disagree, I will
certainly be vocal about it. But so far I am willing to see how this all
pans out. I can only hope that the visions (and I don't mean to go all
Augery on you all) that I have been having regarding our new direction will
NOT come to fruition. I truly pray to the Olympians that our REPUBLIC will
shortly be restored.

However, I feel it my duty as a citizen, as your Augur, as your friend to
point out to you that we need to begin anew with a strong focus on the
Religio. Without it, we are doomed to failure...again. This is not a call
to dispell non-Pagans from Nova Roma, but as we have debated before, the
Religio Romana must be upheld.

I ask then, who will carry the Vestal Flame now that our beloved Flavia
Claudia is no longer with us? When will we begin seeing live rituals planned
and performed by Provincia or Gens? When will we go forth into the
macro-world and present our Religio?

There are numerous Pagan organizations that are dedicated to educating the
public about ALL FORMS of Paganism. Why do we not seek partnering with them?
Did Nova Roma act at all to the attack by Virignia Representative Bob Barr
who seeks to ban Wicca from the military? If first Wicca, then what else?
Religio? Asatru? Hinduism? Catholicism? Pentecostalism? Judaism? We
have a greater calling, citizens, to uphold our faith not only in our private
homes and in our on-line micro-nation but to the macro-world as well.

I seek response from others. How do you feel? What are your thoughts?
Where do you see the Religio going and where do you want to see it go?

The Gods are tired of calling...they want an answer!

--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
Augur, Nova Roma

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Tinnekke Bebout tinnekke@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:40:41 GMT

Salvete Dexippius et Omnes



>The Pontiffical College was never completely set up. Only 2 (now one) of
>appointed Augurs were selected. Priesthoods went unfulfilled. Rituals
>never
>organized or executed. (and hey, I understand we are far between each
>other...but NR's purpose was to restore the Religio Romana and in this we
>have failed. We have done nothing to promote the Religio outside of NR to
>the public let alone on the inside to ourselves. Some of us keep to the
>daily rites of the Lararium but I believe this is as far as it goes).

Personally, I have been doing my best to spread the word via other lists I
am on and such where there might be any receptivity to it. I do daily
worship at the altar of Vesta as well as the rites of the Lares. I keep a
flame to Her on my altar and have not failed to this point in my work. (I've
been at it over a month now...not long but I'm new to this.) I've kept the
rites in my home as best I can. I can't speak for anyone else, but I will go
on no matter what happens in NovaRoma.
>
>We did have one major accomplishment with the formation of the Vestal
>order.
>After much debate, our beloved Flavia Claudia drafted a Vestal Proposal
>which
>was adopted and put into affect. For one year, Flavia Claudia held the
>Vestal Flame for Nova Roma and continued to do so after her term was up.
>Alas, now she has left Nova Roma -- a victim of the politics that plagues
>our
>micro-nation. And with her, the Vestal Flame has left as well.

This is the most regrettable part of this whole mess. Flavia Claudia was a
shining light.

>However, I feel it my duty as a citizen, as your Augur, as your friend to
>point out to you that we need to begin anew with a strong focus on the
>Religio. Without it, we are doomed to failure...again. This is not a call
>to dispell non-Pagans from Nova Roma, but as we have debated before, the
>Religio Romana must be upheld.

I agree, revered Dexippius. I will serve Nova Roma in whatever capacity
might be desired, if I am wanted, and if I am not, then I will continue in
private.
>
>I ask then, who will carry the Vestal Flame now that our beloved Flavia
>Claudia is no longer with us? When will we begin seeing live rituals
>planned
>and performed by Provincia or Gens? When will we go forth into the
>macro-world and present our Religio?

Once I get a new computer, I am planning on writing a book on what I have
done and will be doing and thus bring it to the world. I have also discussed
with my Pagan sisters on women's lists what I am doing and bringing it to
them.
>
>There are numerous Pagan organizations that are dedicated to educating the
>public about ALL FORMS of Paganism. Why do we not seek partnering with
>them?
> Did Nova Roma act at all to the attack by Virignia Representative Bob
>Barr
>who seeks to ban Wicca from the military? If first Wicca, then what else?
>Religio? Asatru? Hinduism? Catholicism? Pentecostalism? Judaism? We
>have a greater calling, citizens, to uphold our faith not only in our
>private
>homes and in our on-line micro-nation but to the macro-world as well.
>
>I seek response from others. How do you feel? What are your thoughts?
>Where do you see the Religio going and where do you want to see it go?
>
>The Gods are tired of calling...they want an answer!
Valete
Lucina Iunia Cypria

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 14:44:16 -0500

On 7 Jul 99, --------5:21, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:

> When will we begin seeing live rituals planned
> and performed by Provincia or Gens?

Dex dear, I don't know about anyone else, but in the creation of the
Temple of Juno I am creating a chatroom that any may use for
public rituals within Nova Roma. My only problem is finding just
the right CGI script. I do not want a Java Based program that only
some of us can use. I really want to find something that everyone
(even the WebTV people) can use. And I want no ads. I will be
running it off of my own server and looking for a cheap or free
program.

I don't have a name for the place, but I'm working on that too (I
suppose I can't name a chatroom I haven't even created now, can
I). I was thinking maybe simply calling it "The Temple" or whatever
that is translated into Latin.

If anyone has questions, comments, complaints, etc. Let me
know.

Darling Dex, I care about the Religio ... and you know I will try to
get something going. I just need a little TIME! <G>


Amethystia Iunia Crystallina -- Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Djester6@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:09:58 EDT

greetings,

I fully agree with Dexippus. now i am not a citizen, but i fully
realise how important it is keeping the belifes of our anestors alive. i am a
celtic reconstructionist it is my duty to carry on what has be given to me
with pride and honor. The Gods are a major part of our lives, and our desants
also. they help us and we in return remeber and honor them. i am espically in
support of relighting the vestial flame. i myself, i could not do this, for i
do not follow the Gods of Rome, but i realive how this ritual is so
important. it is present in all indo-eurpean cultures. weather the norse
need-fire, the celtic hearth fire, or the roman vestal flames. i was born on
St. Bridgets day, and Bridget, a celtic detie, she is the Godess of poets,
smiths, but most importantly, the home and hearth. and as celtic
reoconstructionists we always rember when we light the sacred fire, it stands
for unity and love for our clann. so i tell you, go back to the Gods, and
they will come back to you, and stand with you in peace and on the
battlesments, in prosperity and poverty. the flame repesents our Union,
always tresure and remember it.

Strength in our Arms, Truth in our Hearts, and Fulliment in our Tounges.

Ryan Walsh

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:18:25 +0100

Salvete Dex, Amethystia Iunia Crystallina et omnes

>Dex dear, I don't know about anyone else, but in the creation of the
>Temple of Juno I am creating a chatroom that any may use for
>public rituals within Nova Roma. My only problem is finding just
>the right CGI script. I do not want a Java Based program that only
>some of us can use. I really want to find something that everyone
>(even the WebTV people) can use. And I want no ads. I will be
>running it off of my own server and looking for a cheap or free
>program.
This evokes an idea that I had some time ago and that I discussed yesterday
with Cassius. NR needs online religious service, online rituals. It can
start by a chatroom, but hey! We can send audio and video too! Have you
tried Netmeeting? When the Internet is not congested, Netmeeting provides
acceptable quality audio and video. I have even intalled Netmeeting on my
Lusitania Web page! Right now it is disabled, but my idea was to show how
real-time audio and video can be used. Tomorrow I shall restore Netmeeting
and I would like to invite all of you to connect with me. To install
Netmeeting follow my page until the Praetorium. There I added a link to
Microsoft Netmeeting downloads. It's for free.

But Dex, thank you for your posting. By the way, don't forget the Ludi
Apollinaris... Be a participant and pay homage to Apollo, the God of light
and of arts.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis et coetera

Subject:	Ludi Apollinaris
From:	"Antonio Grilo" amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:20:50 +0100

Salve amice

Do you accept being part of the juri for the literature contests?

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	greenjacket@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:19:51 -0400

Greetings,
While I have not been able to do much for Nova Roma since becoming a
Citizen due to some recent severe health problems and my full time work
with the Church of All Worlds, I have been attempting to spread the word.
With the Nest structure of CAW, I've conducted both classes and rituals
in the Roman Tradition and have been trying to expose the membership of
the church to the Roman Beliefs. My wife, Sabina Domna has also been
working in this direction. As an administrator of CAW, I think a form of
"partnership" in the Pagan community is very possible. We have our annual
elections this weekend, hence a new BoD, but the admin will remain the
same. I can approach the new Board of Directors next week about such a
thing if there is interest.
In a somewhat related topic, my wife has a very good article in the
most recent issue of Green Egg magazine concerning the Warrior Archtype.
If possible I urge those among us who carry scutum or clipus in defence
of NR to have a look. (I also have some illustrations in the issue.) The
author name for the article is Karen Haney-Thomas and as the artist, I'm
R.E.Thomas
If anyone is interested in having a look at what the Church of All
Worlds is about, check out the web-site at www.caw.org
Tiberius Flavius Saturninus

___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: <a href="http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj" target="_top" >http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj</a>.

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:30:05 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 4:17:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
writes:

<< By the way, don't forget the Ludi
Apollinaris... Be a participant and pay homage to Apollo, the God of light
and of arts. >>

Where do I go to participate? Can't let down my Patron.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Ludi Apollinaris
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:30:37 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 4:20:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
writes:

<< Salve amice

Do you accept being part of the juri for the literature contests? >>

Who are you talking to?

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Daniel Dreesbach dreesbach@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:29:59 -0700 (PDT)

What is the Church of All Worlds?

Gaius Iunia Germanus

--- <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123212192056078020169102159077249165108048139046" >green--------et@--------</a> wrote:
> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123212192056078020169102159077249165108048139046" >green--------et@--------</a>
>
> Greetings,
> While I have not been able to do much for Nova
> Roma since becoming a
> Citizen due to some recent severe health problems
> and my full time work
> with the Church of All Worlds, I have been
> attempting to spread the word.
> With the Nest structure of CAW, I've conducted both
> classes and rituals
> in the Roman Tradition and have been trying to
> expose the membership of
> the church to the Roman Beliefs. My wife, Sabina
> Domna has also been
> working in this direction. As an administrator of
> CAW, I think a form of
> "partnership" in the Pagan community is very
> possible. We have our annual
> elections this weekend, hence a new BoD, but the
> admin will remain the
> same. I can approach the new Board of Directors next
> week about such a
> thing if there is interest.
> In a somewhat related topic, my wife has a very
> good article in the
> most recent issue of Green Egg magazine concerning
> the Warrior Archtype.
> If possible I urge those among us who carry scutum
> or clipus in defence
> of NR to have a look. (I also have some
> illustrations in the issue.) The
> author name for the article is Karen Haney-Thomas
> and as the artist, I'm
> R.E.Thomas
> If anyone is interested in having a look at
> what the Church of All
> Worlds is about, check out the web-site at
> www.caw.org
> Tiberius Flavius Saturninus
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Get the Internet just the way you want it.
> Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access
> for a month!
> Try Juno Web: <a href="http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj" target="_top" >http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj</a>.
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor
> ----------------------------
>
> Campaign 2000 is here!
> <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
> Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See
> our homepage.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

_________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	greenjacket@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:42:45 -0400

On Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Daniel Dreesbach
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a> writes:
>From: Daniel Dreesbach <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=114212192056099202169102046248100208071048" >dreesbach@--------</a>
>
>What is the Church of All Worlds?
>
>Gaius Iunia Germanus
>
We are a neo-pagan church founded in 1962 by Oberon Zell. We are also
the first pagan church in the US to be regognized as a non-profit church,
as well as the first pagan church to be recognized by the Australian
govt.

We are a world wide church with Nests, as our local groups are called
predominantly in the US. I think that we are one of the more active pagan
groups, with over 1000 members. The web-site can explain things in
greater detail, I'm certain.
Tiberius Flavius Saturninus

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: <a href="http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj" target="_top" >http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj</a>.

Subject:	Magistrates
From:	Daniel Dreesbach dreesbach@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:52:40 -0700 (PDT)

Are there still any vacancies in the magistrates?

Gaius Iunia germanus
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	"Martins-Esteves" esteves@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:00:45 -0300

Salvete Conservi
Salve Audens

I am very pleased to read your postings again! Your presence in the list is
almost an institution...

Be with Athena Glaukopis!
...
Let us ALL be with Athena Glaukopis ( the owl-faced )!

Vale

T. Horatius Atticus

Subject:	Serviliter
From:	"Martins-Esteves" esteves@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:57:23 -0300

Salvete Conservi
Salve Dictator


I wholy disagree with the decision of the Senate (IF this mythological
entity DID really so decided) of instituting a Dictatorship in this critical
moment. Nothing against Dictatorship, but against the person chosen to be
the Dictator. Our dinive Dictator is not only the "co-founder" of Nova Roma,
but also the one who made our written constitution (according to the
American constitucional tradition, and NOT to the Roman consuetudinary legal
tradition).
Such a concentration of power in one person is much more than a Republic
can endure. So that appointment can be more dangerous in the future than
positive.

That is the expression of my most sincere feelings.

But I can obviously be wrong, you know! Just a suggestion: I can change my
mind and stop my attacks if you make me a SENATOR, if you send me a great
amount of good Falernian and if you offre me some other magistracy left.
Oh, a propos, I have too liberi awaiting their iniciation at the Cursus
Honorum. And to express my thanks towards Your Benignity, I promess to hold
Gladiatorial Games in Provincia Brasilia if my desires are fulfilled.


Valete

Titus Horatius Atticus

Dignitas, Quirites!

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:14:35 -0400

>From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>Dear Citizens,
>
>For sometime now I have been questioning the position of the Religio within
>the realm of Nova Roma amidst all the politics and games. I, and others,
>have seen our beloved faith paraded in front of us as a means of drawing us
>into citizenship and then being left waiting for some kind of fruition to
>happen.
>
<SNIP>
>
>The Gods are tired of calling...they want an answer!
>
>--Damianus Lucianus Dexippus
>Augur, Nova Roma
>
Salvete,

Some time ago a Temple of Iuppiter was set up.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS/" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS/</a>
I posted to the College Pontificium and recommended it, I don't know what
happened but it is still there. I thought is was well done but has suffered
from a lack of patronage.

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

Subject:	Religio Nova Roma
From:	Exitil@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:55:35 EDT

I understand that the Religio Romana was very important to ancient Rome, and
I believe in preserving it as much as the next person. However, I do see the
problem of Nova Roma seemingly focusing too much on it and it appears that
Nova Roma is becoming more church than nation. The response "nation aspects
will come in time" is my most frequent answer. I understand that it will
take time, but shouldnt we at least be doing something, ANYTHING, to start on
the road to becoming a nation? Solidifying the religion does not make Nova
Roma more nation-like, it makes it more like a church. This message may be
insulting to some, but I don't mean it as insulting, I simply am trying to
show my concern for the future of Nova Roma.

-Alex Novus

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:02:25 -0400 (EDT)

T.Horatius Atticus;

I thank you for your kind words, and your warm welcome home. I am
almost old enough to be an institution, but unfortunately not wise
enough. Thank you for your thoughts.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Cassius622@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:04:17 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/1999 12:22:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=132056131009152219130232203206129208071" >Dexippus@--------</a> writes:

Dexippus:
>For sometime now I have been questioning the position of the Religio within
the realm of Nova Roma amidst all the politics and games. I, and others,
have seen our beloved faith paraded in front of us as a means of drawing us
into citizenship and then being left waiting for some kind of fruition to
happen.

Cassius:
Dexippus, you make it sound like the ole "bait 'n switch"! You've been
around for a good long time now, and you must know a good portion of the
continuous goings-on our infant Republic has faced. We have survived the last
full year skipping from crisis to crisis, argument to argument. Many involved
with the Relgio had no choice but to spend their time trying to settle
secular issues so that religious issues *could* eventually be attended, or
defending the very existence of the Religio to folks lobbying for it's
complete removal from Nova Roma altogether.

Dexippus:
>The Pontiffical College was never completely set up.

Cassius:
The Pontificial College was in fact completely staffed, but there was great
difficulty in establishing procedure. The call for Priests went out before
there was any means set to establish how to choose among, or train
prospective candidates. There is more to creating a real Priesthood than
simply giving titles to anyone who says they're interested.

Dexippus:
>Only 2 (now one) of appointed Augurs were selected.

Cassius:
Yes, out of a total of only FOUR candidates. The other two were brand new to
Paganism, had never practiced any sort of Ritual, worshipped a pagan deity,
or done any form of divination whatever. The Pontifices gently asked the
other two to become a little more familiar with their new Chosen Path before
seeking to speak to the Gods on behalf of us all.

Dexippus:
>Priesthoods went unfulfilled.

Cassius:
Yes, and rightfully so. With any sort of luck, they will *continue* to remain
unfulfilled, until either experienced candidates show up, or the Religio has
the resources to create a full program for adequately training applicants.
Nova Roma was never intended to be a Diploma Mill for folks seeking to be
"Instant Clergy". Those few who have been given Priesthood positions have
shown themselves to be not only interested and dedicated, but also people of
real ability. (Um, hey, I'm talkin' about YOU there, Dex! Care to be this
years Poster Child for Religio Romana priesthood?)

Dexippus:
>Rituals never
organized or executed. (and hey, I understand we are far between each
other..but NR's purpose was to restore the Religio Romana and in this we
have failed. We have done nothing to promote the Religio outside of NR to
the public let alone on the inside to ourselves. Some of us keep to the
daily rites of the Lararium but I believe this is as far as it goes).

Cassius:
I'm not exactly certain what you're speaking of here. Have you in fact been
expecting Religio Romana Tent Revivals going on in each Provincia? ;) As yet
there simply haven't been the people to do that. But this is changing! Do you
know how many "known" Roman Pagans there were when Nova Roma was founded, on
Feb 28th, 1998? Six! That's it. How many today, 17 months later? Over 150
that we're aware of, and there is no telling how many folks that the Religo
section of the NR webpage has reached. As the individual Provincia build,
there will be enough people to put on official rituals. And, nobody is
stopping YOU yourself from hosting a few...

Dexippus:
We did have one major accomplishment with the formation of the Vestal order.

After much debate, our beloved Flavia Claudia drafted a Vestal Proposal
which
was adopted and put into affect. For one year, Flavia Claudia held the
Vestal Flame for Nova Roma and continued to do so after her term was up.
Alas, now she has left Nova Roma -- a victim of the politics that plagues
our
micro-nation. And with her, the Vestal Flame has left as well.

Cassius:
I'm afraid that the Vestal Flame had left Nova Roma some time before Flavia
Claudia made the decision to leave us. When she became Vestal she did so with
a one year oath, and that ran out in April. We have now been without an
official Vestal for four months. So far there has been no one able to replace
her. We've had TWO candidates interested in worshipping Vesta... but neither
have been willing to commit to even doing a set daily ritual in the ancient
manner, never mind any other conditions.

Dexippus:
Citizens, we are in dark times. We have foregone our Republic in favor for
a
Dictatorship. "IMPERIAL Rome Is Reborn". We are constantly bickering
amongst ourselves and pointing fingers at those so often felt need blaming.
And in doing so we have lost our connection to the Gods and Goddesses with
whom we pledged allegiance. We have foregone our committment to the Religio
Romana and this deterioration of our nation is our harvest!

Cassius:
Why Dex... that's positively BIBLICAL! ;) Anytime you want to trade up from
Augur to Prophet...

Dexippus:
> It is not my intention here to speak against those measures taken to "fix"
our micro-nation. It is no secret that I do not favor a Dictatorship of any
king (given Roman historiocity or not). And when I disagree, I will
certainly be vocal about it. But so far I am willing to see how this all
pans out. I can only hope that the visions (and I don't mean to go all
Augery on you all) that I have been having regarding our new direction will
NOT come to fruition. I truly pray to the Olympians that our REPUBLIC will
shortly be restored.

Cassius:
As do we all, Germanicus more than any of us I think!

Dexippus:
>However, I feel it my duty as a citizen, as your Augur, as your friend to
point out to you that we need to begin anew with a strong focus on the
Religio. Without it, we are doomed to failure...again. This is not a call
to dispell non-Pagans from Nova Roma, but as we have debated before, the
Religio Romana must be upheld.

Cassius:
I'm sorry, but "Our faults have not been in our Stars, but in Ourselves".
Our problems have been between people, not with the Gods. So far the Religio
Romana has been given a better foundation than most attempts to revive
ancient religions, and I find it hard to believe that the Deities we care
about so much would punish us for that.

Dexippus:
> I ask then, who will carry the Vestal Flame now that our beloved Flavia
Claudia is no longer with us?

Cassius:
The effort to solve this problem has been ongoing. My personal hope has been
to acknowledge that we cannot at this time have a true, full Vestal College.
Instead, women interested in Vesta should form an informal Religious
Sodalicium... one that would be able to keep a flame in *some* manner. In
this way they would be able to honor Vesta without the deep sacrifice that
Flavia Claudia made - but because of this they would not be full Vestals
either.

Dexippus:
> When will we begin seeing live rituals planned
and performed by Provincia or Gens?

Cassius:
Well, if it's a help, the Patricia and I have been performing public Roman
related rituals every month or two since the start of the year. How soon will
this sort of thing spread to other Provincia? That depends not on the
Pontificial College, but on the individual practitioners of the Religio. One
doesn't have to be officially a priest to honor the Gods of Rome. Again, you
yourself could begin doing public rites for the Mid-Atlantic Province at any
time... you HAVE been officially accepted into the priesthood for a good long
time now.

Dexippus:
>When will we go forth into the
macro-world and present our Religio?

Cassius:
Since the day of founding, Feb 28th, 1998. That was the day the Religio
section of the website was opened to the public, and Nova Roma began to be a
place for pagans of Classical interest to begin the first steps toward
rebuilding our ancient path. Before that step, there was basically *nothing*
on an international basis. Not that promotion on the Internet has ever been
intended as the only method of promoting the Religio... but it takes a while
before you can get people to go around and knock on doors, asking: "Have you
heard the Word of IVPPITER today?"

Dexippus:
There are numerous Pagan organizations that are dedicated to educating the
public about ALL FORMS of Paganism. Why do we not seek partnering with
them?

Cassius:
Who says we haven't?

Dexippus:
Did Nova Roma act at all to the attack by Virignia Representative Bob Barr
who seeks to ban Wicca from the military? If first Wicca, then what else?
Religio? Asatru? Hinduism? Catholicism? Pentecostalism? Judaism? We
have a greater calling, citizens, to uphold our faith not only in our
private
homes and in our on-line micro-nation but to the macro-world as well.

Cassius:
There are a whole range of views on this sort of issue. Personally, I'd
prefer to join the ACLU to fight that sort of political battle... they have
far more numbers, money and political influence than the Religio Romana will
have for years to come. Also, I believe that many of us DID in fact get
involved with this issue, but in other forums. But all that aside. Nova Roma
was swamped with the Tribes issue during the Barr controversy, and there was
little choice but to work on the situation that people were demanding action
on. If folks had preferred to be involved with the Pagans in the Military
issue, something should have been said.

Dexippus:
> I seek response from others. How do you feel?

Cassius:
Super! Thanks for asking!

Dexippus:
>What are your thoughts?

Cassius:
As far as the Religio? Quite frankly, it's too soon after the latest blowup
to tell. I personally am going to wait for the Dictatorship to finish up
before I even begin to make any plans for the future.

Dexippus:
>Where do you see the Religio going and where do you want to see it go?

Cassius:
Personally, I'd like to see it take a vacation to Disney, and bring me along!
Failing that, I see the Religio building a strong foundation and staffing
priesthood... carefully. So far there isn't a person "officially" involved
with the Priesthood who doesn't deserve to be there. And in this I DO Include
the two appointments made by Germanicus, both done with my blessings for
whatever that's worth. So far many of the applications that have come to the
Pontificial College have been from folks who don't believe in the gods, don't
want to do rituals, etc. We've avoided making frivolous appointments, and
built a good foundation. Hopefully there will be opportunity to BUILD on that
foundation in the future.

Dexippus:
The Gods are tired of calling...they want an answer!

Cassius:
Well then, it wouldn't hurt to answer your own phone first and foremost!
Dexippus, when you and Saevus were made Augurs, the Pontificial College
charged you with creating a body of information and divination practices that
could be used to build a larger and more organized College of Augurs. From
that date to now, not a word has been said by either of you. Is this work
done? Do you in fact have written practices to present, as was agreed? As the
sole Augur, the job falls to you if it has not been done. If it *has* in fact
been completed, the Pontificial College will be glad to hear of it, and work
can continue more at the speed you require.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Subject:	Re: Temple of Juppiter
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:07:31 EDT

Salve,

I have visited the Temple many times, and have found that the chat room,
message board/prayer log, aren't functioning. To my knowledge they never
have, this may explain the lack of patronage. I'm sure if they were working,
they'd be used.

Vale,
Gn. Tarquinius Caesar

Subject:	Re: Acceptance
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:03:57 -0700

> > Secondly, as legally appointed Dictator of Nova Roma, I hereby appoint
the
> > following individuals to the Senate, should they consent to so serve (at
the
> > very least, our higher magistrates should be included in its ranks):

I am very honored to be appointed Senator of Nova Roma, and vow to serve
Nova Roma and her citizens to the best of my ability.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus

Subject:	Concerning the Religio
From:	william wheeler wuffa@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:27:58 +0100

Dex dear I have a Temple ( on a hill in easten oregon)
I and about 40 others go there monthy then are 23 people
who live in a hall near it etc.. ( the temple is to Apollo and Hermes)(
the Order I am in has had this temple going for over 20 years
And as Soon as I have time to do it I will get a webcam running.
I just saw today! my getting my Pontiffical title.
so Holy Augur I will need a Augury
LOTS of them
I want to setup more temples
I need you NR NEEDS you keep saying what you have been
I did not want to say anything Till I got my Pontiffical title
you know PRO FORMA and all that
but now I will need you help
do you need anything from me for your task?
I do LOVE the GODS of ROME
M.Cornelius Felix

Subject:	Re: Temple of Juppiter
From:	"Lucius" vergil@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:26:46 -0400

Salve et Avete,
>
>I have visited the Temple many times, and have found that the chat room,
>message board/prayer log, aren't functioning. To my knowledge they never
>have, this may explain the lack of patronage. I'm sure if they were
working,
>they'd be used.
>
> Vale,
> Gn. Tarquinius Caesar


Salvete et Ave Caesar

I just posted to both the message board and the guestbook and they worked
fine.
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS/navigator.html" target="_top" >http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS/navigator.html</a>

Also, the chatroom is 'hooked up' with another chat 'Talk to Me' which was
full at the time and I chatted with some very civilized people. If you have
had a problem with the site maybe you should e-mail the owner.
<a hre--------post/novaroma?protectID=114166091165042237215056001163243012136219139046209" >darth_vilmur@--------</a>

try it you'll like it :-)

Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 16:43:21 -0700 (PDT)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> I ask then, who will carry the Vestal Flame now that our beloved Flavia
> Claudia is no longer with us? When will we begin seeing live rituals planned
> and performed by Provincia or Gens? When will we go forth into the
> macro-world and present our Religio?

What are the requirements of the position and what does one do to fulfill them?


I've requested info a number of times on the priesthood and on the Vestals, but
not much answer.... I'd like to volunteer.



-Kyrinia




===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Religio Nova Roma
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:50:16 EDT

I didn't find it insulting...only a mirror image of what I am speaking of.
Since Nova Roma's creation we have accumulated a number of citizens, formed a
constitution, elected Consuls, a Senate, (now a Dictator), formed Sodalitas,
formed Provincae, declared ourselves a micro-nation, made alliances with
other micro-nations, etc. All this sounds like a "nation" to me. You may be
talking about "aquiring land" which is not our intention...it never has been.

My post is regarding the religio. You say Nova Roma is more a church than a
nation. When has the Religio ever been put before the politics in Nova Roma?
Have magistrates offered public prayers to the Gods? No! Have magistrates
made any public offerings to the Gods? No! Have there been any sermons,
teachings, or workshops by Pontiffs? No! So I don't see where you can say
this has been a "church" up until now.

Where I stand, the Religio has taken a back seet since the establishment of
Nova Roma, though it was the cornerstone of the organization's conception. I
for one would like to see NR live up to its promise, its dream, of
publicizing the Religio and making Roman Paganism known in the MACRO-WORLD
again.

--Dexippus

In --------ss--------d-------- 7/7/99 4:57:20 PM EST, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------; writes:

<< I understand that the Religio Romana was very important to ancient Rome,
and
I believe in preserving it as much as the next person. However, I do see
the
problem of Nova Roma seemingly focusing too much on it and it appears that
Nova Roma is becoming more church than nation. The response "nation aspects
will come in time" is my most frequent answer. I understand that it will
take time, but shouldnt we at least be doing something, ANYTHING, to start
on
the road to becoming a nation? Solidifying the religion does not make Nova
Roma more nation-like, it makes it more like a church. This message may be
insulting to some, but I don't mean it as insulting, I simply am trying to
show my concern for the future of Nova Roma. >>

Subject:	Oath of Office
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:06:08 -0700

I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to
act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, swear to do honor to the Gods and
Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and
private life.

I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of
the office of Senator of Nova Roma to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of
the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Senator of Nova Roma and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus

Subject:	Re: Religio Nova Roma
From:	Exitil@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:09:11 EDT

<< Since Nova Roma's creation we have accumulated a number of citizens,
formed a
constitution, elected Consuls, a Senate, (now a Dictator), formed Sodalitas,
formed Provincae, declared ourselves a micro-nation, made alliances with
other micro-nations, etc. All this sounds like a "nation" to me. You may
be
talking about "aquiring land" which is not our intention...it never has been.
>>

But without real world goals those qualities dont make it a nation. I could
go to a nearby kindergarden and have groups of kids form "micronations" and
make alliances with eachother and they could all scramble around electing
people. Wouldnt make it a nation. (This too may sound like a big insult,
but it really isnt, its just an attempt to show that just because people call
themselves micronations, elect officials, and make alliances doesnt make them
a nation). If those same kindergardeners went out and started claiming
territory, building structures, having their own economy, etc. then I would
call it a nation.

Subject:	Re: Temple of Juppiter
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:13:47 EDT

Salvete,

I still can't get in there, but I e-mailed the page owner, so hopefully he'll
know why I can't get in, cause I sure don't! Thanks for that info,
Cincinnatus, all this time I thought someone just neglected to get them up
and running!

Valete,
Gn.Tarquinius Caesar

Subject:	Res Publica
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:15:40 -0700 (PDT)

At 04:09 PM 7/6/99 -0400, Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> >
>"While I stand by my opinion of Cincinnatus as a politician, I am not deaf
>to the cries of his supporters and friends, many of whom have contacted me
>on his behalf. In the spirit of compromise and cooperation embodied by the
>great Goddess Concordia, I hereby decree that Cincinnatus may indeed once
>again be enlisted as a Citizen of our fair Republic, and I shall personally
>reinstall him in his sacred office of Flamen Martiales, on the sole proviso
>that he neither seek nor serve in political office, including the Senate,
>until 2,754 AUC (March of 2001), roughly a year and a half from now.
>
>"It is my sincere hope that he shall accept my offer in the spirit of
>concord and compromise in which it is made, and offer him my word that no
>ill-will shall be shown by myself to him; let there be a clean slate between
>us."
>
Salve, Germanicus, et salvete, Quirites.

Germanicus, I remain opposed to your expulsion of Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus, and I remain committed to his FULL restoration. I am proud to
say that I am a member of his intimate circle; we have chatted extensively
and e-mailed each other voluminously throughout the past four months. I
swear by Mars, to you and to all of Nova Roma, that Cincinnatus has never
breathed a word to me of any illegal intent whatsoever. We always discussed
Constitutional options for dealing with the inaction of the Censores which,
let none of us forget, is what precipitated this crisis.

Accordingly, it is far more than a sense of personal loyalty that impels me
to call for the restoration of Cincinnatus; rather, it is a sense of
Justice. If you have any evidence against Cincinnatus, present it in a
court of law.

Your political reforms are one thing, but the matter of Cincinnatus is one
of human rights. You have violated his human rights; the rights of the
accused to a fair trial, to present a defense, to confront one's accusers.
In so doing, you have disparaged the Rule of Law and made it subservient to
the whims of one man. This is the act of a Tyrant. It is un-Roman.

For Rome stands for far more that the exercise of raw power. Any barbarous
chieftain can do that. More than anything, what makes us Romans is our
Justice. Justice is what made Rome respected. Her power merely made her
feared.

Quirites, I ask each and every one of you, if I were to hack off both of
your daughter's arms, then offer to sew one back on, would I be any less a
criminal? Would my suggestion of "compromise" be a substitute for justice?

The obvious truth, dear Cives, is that there are certain things that by
their very nature cannot be compromised. Justice is one of them. Justice
cut in half is not simply less justice, it is in fact injustice. Justice is
meant to be whole and complete in the eyes of the Gods, just as they mean
for each and every one of us to come into this world whole and complete.
Who the mutilates the rights of one of us mutilates the soul of each of us.

Oh, my dear Citizens, you have praised Germanicus for cutting the Gordian
Knot; you should pat your persons to check what organs that surgeon may have
deprived of you!

Quirites, I say to you that while Germanicus is entitled to his "opinion of
Cincinnatus as a politician", it is no substitute for the Rule of Law. I
further say that for Germanicus to inflict his "opinion" on a free State is
to destroy that free State, and to erect a Tyranny in its place.

Germanicus, if you can do this to one man, you can do this to me as well,
your protestations of contrary intent aside. And if you can violate me, you
can violate the person who stands by me, and the one who stands beside her,
ad infinitum.

Res Publica. The underlying basis of the State is that the People are
secure in their rights and have the means to defend them. Without this as
the foundation of the State, your political reforms are nothing but a facade
erected on a marsh, and they will not stand the test of time. Because of
your example, we shall all fear the advent of the next Feuhrer, and there
most certainly shall be one! For there will always be another crisis,
another Reichstag Fire, or whatever.

History is the record of Humanity lurching clumsily from one crisis to the
next. In a free State, the people, being sovereign, solve their own crises.
In a totalitarian State, one man determines the issue, for better or
worse... ususally for worse. Quirites, the problems we had were ours to
solve. It was un-Roman of us not to. Shame on us for not doing so! Shame
on us for abdicating our responsibility!

Germanicus, you have done nothing for us that we could not have done for
ourselves in time.

Oh, but this is all so perfectly legal according to our Constitution, I hear
many exclaim! And is that all there is to it? Hardly! We do not live in
the first century; no, we are fast approaching the 21st century. We are the
beneficiaries of two additional millennia of jurisprudence, and of human
struggle. Is the restoration of the Roman Republic necessarily a step
backward in human rights? Are the rights of the ancient Romans the only
rights that we claim for ourselves? Who among us would willingly live under
the Constitution of the United States as written in 1787? Without the 19th
Amendment, which gave women the right to vote? Without the 13th, 14th, and
15th Amendments, the Reconstruction Amendments? Without the Bill or Rights?

A piece of paper may enumerate certain rights, according to the wisdom of
the time, but any piece of paper must always be incomplete, for there are
always new human rights waiting to be discovered, fought for, and ultimately
won. There are rights, though they may not be enumerated in the
Constitution of Nova Roma, which have been discovered sometime between the
first century and this new one upon which we are about to embark, and
because they have been discovered, they apply universally, regardless of
geographical boundaries and regardless of domain names. Therefore, I
maintain, and I shall insist until my last day as a citizen of Nova Roma,
that Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus has the same rights in Nova Roma that he
would have in any free any civilized State. If he does not, what does that
say about the rest of us?

As for the rest, it is my opinion that Cincinnatus must be FULLY restored!

Valete
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:18:46 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 5:05:35 PM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=137166066112082162090021200165114237071048139" >Cassius622@--------</a> writes:

<< Dexippus, you make it sound like the ole "bait 'n switch"! You've been
around for a good long time now, and you must know a good portion of the
continuous goings-on our infant Republic has faced. We have survived the
last
full year skipping from crisis to crisis, argument to argument. Many
involved
with the Relgio had no choice but to spend their time trying to settle
secular issues so that religious issues *could* eventually be attended, or
defending the very existence of the Religio to folks lobbying for it's
complete removal from Nova Roma altogether. >>

Cassius et al...I totally understand all this. I myself have had very little
time to devote to Augur duties besides the few requests I've had from private
citizens. However, perhaps we should take a look and ask why are so few
individuals involved in so many positions: Senator, Pontiff, Priest, Augur,
Consul, Censor, etc.....let's spread the butter on the bread and give
everyone a chance to do their share. This way no one is tied down to too
many things.

<<The Pontificial College was in fact completely staffed, but there was great
difficulty in establishing procedure.>>

I thought there had to be 15 Pontiffs. There was only four on the list.

<<Yes, and rightfully so. With any sort of luck, they will *continue* to
remain
unfulfilled, until either experienced candidates show up, or the Religio has
the resources to create a full program for adequately training applicants.
Nova Roma was never intended to be a Diploma Mill for folks seeking to be
"Instant Clergy". >>

Agreed...but that takes me down the road of advertising to Pagans for
citizenship. Another debate....

<<Those few who have been given Priesthood positions have
shown themselves to be not only interested and dedicated, but also people of
real ability. (Um, hey, I'm talkin' about YOU there, Dex! Care to be this
years Poster Child for Religio Romana priesthood?)>>

Seems like I'm always a Poster Child for something. Let me get back to you
on that one. You and I have had discussions about this before. I may need
to consult my Patrons.

<<I'm not exactly certain what you're speaking of here. Have you in fact been
expecting Religio Romana Tent Revivals going on in each Provincia?>>

Well...YEAH! Hell...why not?

<<And, nobody is
stopping YOU yourself from hosting a few... >>

This is true...now don't steel my thunder! I'm planning for the future!
(not so far off future mind you).

<<We have now been without an
official Vestal for four months. >>

I believe she said she was keeping the flame going regardless...an unofficial
Vestal.

<<Why Dex... that's positively BIBLICAL! ;) Anytime you want to trade up from
Augur to Prophet... >>

Can I ride into main on a donkey or something? Better yet...dress me up as a
donkey and have some big gorgeous Roman ride me! LOL

<<I'm sorry, but "Our faults have not been in our Stars, but in Ourselves".
Our problems have been between people, not with the Gods. So far the Religio
Romana has been given a better foundation than most attempts to revive
ancient religions, and I find it hard to believe that the Deities we care
about so much would punish us for that. >>

Punish? No. Ignore? Yes. It's a feeling in my gut...

<<Well, if it's a help, the Patricia and I have been performing public Roman
related rituals every month or two since the start of the year. How soon will
this sort of thing spread to other Provincia? That depends not on the
Pontificial College, but on the individual practitioners of the Religio. One
doesn't have to be officially a priest to honor the Gods of Rome.>>

FANTASTIC! FABULOUS! DELICIOUS!

<<Again, you
yourself could begin doing public rites for the Mid-Atlantic Province at any
time... you HAVE been officially accepted into the priesthood for a good long
time now. >>

Really? When did that happen? I received no notification. At one time I
did apply to the Pontiffical College but never received acceptance...only for
that of Augur. At that time I didn't pursue it for personal reasons.

<<but it takes a while
before you can get people to go around and knock on doors, asking: "Have you
heard the Word of IVPPITER today?">>

IUPPITER'S WITNESSES! There's the next fad!

<<There are numerous Pagan organizations that are dedicated to educating the
public about ALL FORMS of Paganism. Why do we not seek partnering with
them?

Cassius:
Who says we haven't? >>

Have we? Who? Where? Inquiring minds want to know!

<<So far many of the applications that have come to the
Pontificial College have been from folks who don't believe in the gods, don't
want to do rituals, etc. We've avoided making frivolous appointments, and
built a good foundation. Hopefully there will be opportunity to BUILD on that
foundation in the future. >>

Super! That's good news!

<<Well then, it wouldn't hurt to answer your own phone first and foremost! >>

This is why I have VOICE MAIL!!!!!

<<Dexippus, when you and Saevus were made Augurs, the Pontificial College
charged you with creating a body of information and divination practices that
could be used to build a larger and more organized College of Augurs. From
that date to now, not a word has been said by either of you. Is this work
done? Do you in fact have written practices to present, as was agreed? As the
sole Augur, the job falls to you if it has not been done. If it *has* in fact
been completed, the Pontificial College will be glad to hear of it, and work
can continue more at the speed you require. >>

Saevus was compiling the handbook to which I contributed to. However, he is
gone and he has been out of contact with me. I am trying to get in touch
with him to have this information passed along to me. I have what I
contributed, but he was holding the whole kit and kaboodle...my bad, ok!

--Dexippus
Still Divus Maximus Extremus!

Subject:	Re: Priesthood Appointment
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:19:17 -0700

Congrats Marcus Cornelius Felix, you will do a great job! I know you will
honor the Gods with your service.

L. Cornelius Sulla
Paterfamilias of the Gens Cornelia
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germa--------s <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 6:29 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Priesthood Appointment


> From: "Flavius Vedius Germa--------s" <a href="/post/--------roma?protectID=123056091213158116036102228219114090071048139" >germa--------s@--------</a> >
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> It is with great pleasure that I hereby announce Marcus Cornelius Felix as
a
> member of the Collegium Pontificum with the title of Pontiff. This
decision
> was made in consultation with our esteemed Pontifex Maximus, Marcus
Cassius
> Julianus, and I am certain that he will make a fine addition to the ranks
of
> the priesthood of our fair Republic, and shall prove invaluable in our
> restoration of the rites of the Religio Romana.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Dictator
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: your connection to online communities.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	"George Metz" gwmetz@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:08:40 -0400

VICESIMA - QUARTA
LEGIO XXIV - MEDIA - ATLANTIA

* PROVINCIA PENNSYLVANIA *
* MEDIA - ATLANTICA * AMERICIA *

Defending the Frontiers of Ancient Rome
in the Mid - Atlantic Province
of North America


July 7, 1999
Year of Rome 2752

Ave et Salutatio... Commilito Audens:

Hello and Greetings from Gallio Velius Marsallas,
Praefectus, Legio XXIV-Media-Atlantica;
Tribune Militaris, NovaRoma Gens Velia
aka George W. Metz
13 Post Run Newtown Square, PA 19073-3014
<a h--------"/post/nova--------?p--------ctID=034056178009193116001195151189114012071048139" >legionXXIV@--------</a> 610-363-4982
<a href="http://www.legionXXIV.org" target="_top" >http://www.legionXXIV.org</a>

Welcome back to NovaRoma. Your hasty departure is
overlooked.
That has been one of the problems in this micro-nation . . .
citizens taking offense to quickly; along with the
"If you don't wan'a play my way, then I'm going take my
ball and go home" attitude.
We should all be big boys and girls by now and be able
to put away such childish ways and be more tolerant.
End of Lecture.

As far as I and Legion XXIV are concerned, you never left
the Sodalist Militum. Carry On Marcus.

Glad to hear you are back in the Army Now!

As always I remain;

Tuus / Vester in Sodalicio Romanae Rei Pubicae
Yours in the Comradeship of the Roman Republic


Gallio / George


O====<|| S P Q R ||>====O
L E G I O
X X I V
M A


ooooooooooooo
O====|<|| S P Q R ||>|====O
| |
O =============O
|| | | ||
|| | L E G | ||
|| | X X I V | ||
|| | M A | ||
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Subject:	Roman Engineering History;
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:23:37 -0400 (EDT)

Ports-General;

Many of the Roman Roads ended at the sea. The Mediterranean Sea
occupied a central position in the Roman world. It could be an obstacle
or it could be a broad highway.The purpose of these roads were to extend
the sea-lnes over which the Roman army traveled to inland areas of the
countries that became their provinces. Where these Roman Roads ended
were sites for port facilities of a wide and varied extent. As the
Romans spread their power around the shores of this "Roman Lake" and
swept it free of pirates, trade thrived, and ports had to be enlarged
and new ports designed and built.

Each of the ports, so constructed, reflected the particular situation
found in each of the locations including exposure to prevailing winds
and weather, building materials, excavation practices, and a sufficient
work force. Today a veritable wagon load of detailed drawings would be
required to undertake even the smallest of the Roman Port Facilities
that have been discovered, but not a single building drawing has been
found in Roman Archaelogical locations. To a large measure then, this
would indicate that the skills of the Engineer / Archetect and those of
the skilled artisan and mechanic were used in some kind of combination
that sustituted effectively for the lack of "paper based" information.

Some of the most impressive engineering works were at Rome's own seaport
of Ostia, at the mouth of the Tiber River. As the population increased,
so did the need for supplies, especially corn from Egypt. In the middle
of the 1st Century A.D. the Emperor Claudius created a new harbor on the
coast to the north, linked to the Tiber by a canal. It was formed by
two curved moles jutting out into the sea, with an artificial island
between their ends to create two entrances to the harbor. This sructure
enclosed about 70 hectares (0.27 square miles) of sea, but it proved to
be too exposed to bad weather..A half century later, Trajan had a basin
dug inland about half the size of Claudius' harbor. This structure
provided mooring facilities for more than a hundred ships. It was
six-sided with storage facilites and roadways along five of the six
sides the sixth being the harbor opening to the sea and to the Tiber
Canal. The lighthouse probably stood on the island between the two
moles of Claudis' Harbor. The town of Ostia was laid out directly to
the East of Trajan's Harbor.

The design of this harbor allowed the entry and exit of merchant ships,
and combined moorage facilities, storage for cargo, lifting facilities
for cargo transfer to grain barges, and virtually all of the main
services enjoyed by modern seaports except for drydocks. Generally a
marine railway was used to haul ships out of the water for maintenance
and repair, due to their small size as compared to todays ocean-going
vessels.

Few ports could compare with The Twin Harbors At Ostia (as it was
called), but very many required constant skill and labor to maintain and
improve them. The needs of the maritime business was extremely
important and it's requirements were extensive: quays, piers, moles,
lighthouses, cargo storage, canals, roads, barges, and of course the
skilled work force needed to maintain the ports in usable condition were
all vital to the continued provision of foodstuffs and trade goods to
the Empire.

It is sometimes forgotten that the Roman sea pathways were as important
as the Roman roads, and in the aspect of large quantities of grain and
bulk cargo more important, as it simply was not possible to transport
large amounts of like products overland.

Reference:
The Roman Engineers, L.A. and J.A. Haney

Very Respectfully Submitted;
Marcus Minucius Audens

.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:25:09 -0700

Welcome back Audens... :) Your company has been missed!!!! Glad you are back
among us!

L. Cornelius Sulla

----- Original Message -----
From: James Mathe--------lt;a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a>
To: <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:30 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Announcement


> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> Citizens of Nova Roma, Greetings;
>
> I have applied to Dictator Germanicus for permission to continue with NR
> as a citizen. I have not requested the restoration of any office
> political or honorary, as I feel that my inconvenience to you and to all
> my special friends did not warrant such. Dictator Germanicus has
> generously and graciously welcomed me back to NR and I am most
> appreciative of this fact.
>
> This announcement is also an apology to all those on this list for a
> terribe temper that I am unfortunately endowed with. I usually manage
> to keep it under close control, but the effects of the last week or so,
> resulted in the breaking of that control, which I greatly regret. My
> only excuse is that I was roughly used by former friends and was so
> enaged at the handling that I took immediate action without considering
> my options over a period of time.
>
> So, therefore, I stand before you as Marcus Minucius Audens, in penance
> for my error in judgement and causing pain and anxiety to any person in
> NR who depended upon me, and whom I failed when I resigned. I have
> corresponded with five particular friends who have urged me not to leave
> and to seek to continue with NR. They know who they are, and for their
> particular interest in me, and encouragement I am extremely grateful.
>
> I have offered my services to the Dictator Germanicus, poor as such
> might be, and ask of the Commanders of Legios XXIV and VI by copy of
> this letter, permission to re-enter the Sodalist Militum for the purpose
> of continuing my studies in Roman Engineering and Cartography. I have
> offered explanations of my political actions prior to my resignation to
> all who evidenced an interest, with full explanations to various of the
> existing officers of NR. I now consider that a closed book, and will
> not re-open again those pages without great pain and anxiety.
>
> Lastly, but far from least, I apologize to the Gods Of Rome who watch
> over this community. I most humbly ask their understanding of my human
> faults and grant me their forgivness and good will. As the Gods well
> know, I will not be able to hear any response from them, but it is my
> belief that such a response will be refected in the citizens of NR in
> times to come.
>
> Thank you all for your most kind attention to this sad explanation;
>
>
> Vale; Citizens of Nova Roma;
> Very Respectfully and Most Humbly;
>
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> How has ONElist changed your life?
> Share your story with us at <a href="http://www.onelist.com" target="_top" >http://www.onelist.com</a>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:28:44 -0700 (PDT)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> <<Yes, and rightfully so. With any sort of luck, they will *continue* to
> remain unfulfilled, until either experienced candidates show up, or the >
Religio has
> the resources to create a full program for adequately training applicants.
> Nova Roma was never intended to be a Diploma Mill for folks seeking to be
> "Instant Clergy". >>
> Agreed...but that takes me down the road of advertising to Pagans for
> citizenship. Another debate....

Ok, so what qualifies as "experienced candidates"? Do they have to be ordained
already? How about leading group rituals as experience? Does that count?

I have a million questions....

> <<So far many of the applications that have come to the
> Pontificial College have been from folks who don't believe in the gods, don't
> want to do rituals, etc. We've avoided making frivolous appointments, and
> built a good foundation. Hopefully there will be opportunity to BUILD on that
> foundation in the future. >>
> Super! That's good news!

Where's the application?




-Andrea Gladia "I'm nothing if not persistent" Kyrinia





===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:26:43 -0700 (PDT)

--- Antonio Grilo <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a> wrote:
> But Dex, thank you for your posting. By the way, don't forget the Ludi
> Apollinaris... Be a participant and pay homage to Apollo, the God of light
> and of arts.

I'm with Dex. Where do I go and when does it start?



-Andrea Gladia "Apollo is one of my patrons too" Kyrinia



===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:28:34 EDT

Felix,

Congratulations on your appointmenship. I will gracefully help you in anyway
I can.

What kind of Augery would you like me to do? Anything specific you have a
question on? All I would need from you is some guidance. Then I will plan a
meditation and see what the Gods tell me.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:35:01 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 6:46:35 PM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> writes:

<< What are the requirements of the position and what does one do to fulfill
them?
>>

I don't have the requirements with me. I belive FC had them or gave them to
the Pontiffical College.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Religio Nova Roma
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:36:44 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 7/7/99 7:10:10 PM EST, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------; writes:

<< (This too may sound like a big insult,
but it really isnt, its just an attempt to show that just because people
call
themselves micronations, elect officials, and make alliances doesnt make
them
a nation). If those same kindergardeners went out and started claiming
territory, building structures, having their own economy, etc. then I would
call it a nation. >>

You are right. However we never said we were seeking Macro-Nation...please
read the website carefully.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:40:48 -0400 (EDT)

George Metz;

I thank you for your kid thoughts and your lecture. You are certainly
correct and I deserve it. Now if I can just get this buzing out of my
head (<Grin>).

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Templum Primum
From:	mater@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:41:21 -0400 (EDT)

Salvete,

Well, it's done. We now have a chatroom that can be used for online rituals. Just call me Jerryia Fallwellia!!

I've created a web community called
Templum Primum.

It's part of a leading web service called Delphi
that specializes in helping people create their
own discussion groups, chat rooms, and personal
homepages.

To join our discussion, simply go to
<a href="http://www.delphi.com/templum/start" target="_top" >http://www.delphi.com/templum/start</a>

If you've never used Delphi before you'll need to
go through a quick registration so you can
participate in the discussion. It only takes a
minute and it's free!

There is a member access type code t hey say you can use to join. The password is -- romantemple

I hope to see you online soon,


Amethystia Iunia Crystallina-- Iunonis Templique Sacerdotes

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:40:42 -0700 (PDT)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> << What are the requirements of the position and what does one do to fulfill
> them? >>
> I don't have the requirements with me. I belive FC had them or gave them to
> the Pontiffical College.

Ok, how do I get in touch with them?




-Andrea Gladia "Not a nag, just tenacious" Kyrinia



===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:43:46 -0400 (EDT)

L.Cornelius Sulla;

I appreciate greatly yourwelcome back. I was lost there for a time but
it all worked out well. I have been allowed to return o my studies in
the Sodalitas Militum and am content.

Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Serviliter
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:44:52 -0700 (PDT)

At 05:57 PM 7/7/99 -0300, Martins-Esteves wrote:
>From: "Martins-Esteves" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=070059114056017198090218141036129208" >esteves@--------</a>
>
>I can change my
>mind and stop my attacks if you make me a SENATOR, if you send me a great
>amount of good Falernian and if you offre me some other magistracy left.
>Oh, a propos, I have too liberi awaiting their iniciation at the Cursus
>Honorum. And to express my thanks towards Your Benignity, I promess to hold
>Gladiatorial Games in Provincia Brasilia if my desires are fulfilled.
>
Salve, Noble Atticus!

I think "der Feuhrer" should certainly make you a Senator! He has damn near
made everyone else one! And let him ply you with good Falernian as well!
But if you will forgive me, I must tell you that you have it somewhat wrong.
Several decades ago, Jesse Unruh, the Speaker of the Assembly of the Great
State of California, gave us guidance on how we should deal with those who
attempt to buy influence: "If you can't take their money, drink their booze,
fuck their women, and still vote against them, you don't belong here." In a
world corrupt beyond redemption, this is what passes for integrity.

I don't know how large Germanicus's bank account is, or how refined is his
taste in alcohol, or what his wife and daughters look like, but it might be
interesting to find out! He may well have the means to satisfy all of your
appetites. If you would be so kind as to favor me with a report.

As for the rest, it is my opinion that Cincinnatus must be FULLY restored!

Vale,
Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Aedilis Curule et Vebsitarius Maximus
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius

Subject:	Re: Religio Nova Roma
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:47:19 -0500

On 7 Jul 99, --------0:09, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------; wrote:

> But without real world goals those qualities dont make it a nation. I
> could go to a nearby kindergarden and have groups of kids form
> "micronations" and make alliances with eachother and they could all
> scramble around electing people. Wouldnt make it a nation. (This too may
> sound like a big insult, but it really isnt, its just an attempt to show
> that just because people call themselves micronations, elect officials,
> and make alliances doesnt make them a nation). If those same
> kindergardeners went out and started claiming territory, building
> structures, having their own economy, etc. then I would call it a nation.

Then go down to your local kinne-garten and start recruiting!

Vale
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina

Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach the ways of peace.
Virgil

ICQ# 38493770
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>

Subject:	Fwd: [novaroma] Ludi Apollinaris
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:49:05 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 2:47:29 AM Pa----------------ylight Time, <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
writes:

Salvete,

I am forwarding this message after reading several others asking 'when to pay
homage to Apollo and how.' You may also want to seek out an online Temple of
Apollo and leave a prayer posted there(try
www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp). As the God of Poetry and the Arts, we
will soon be doing Apollo honor in the below mentioned contests. We will be
recognising His power and influence over the spoken and written word, and
composing or reciting in His divine name. It is an act of faith and
dedication, performed at each of Apollo's festivals in Antiqua, and I
encourage people to participate. Apollo will be watching.

Valete,
Gn. Tarquinius Caesar

<< From: "Antonio Grilo" <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>

Salvete omnes

As you may know, the Ludi Apollinaris stretch from July 6th to July 13th.
They included both gladiatorial games (we had them yesterday) and cultural
events such as theatre plays and literature contests.

A sugestion from civis Gn. Tarquinius Caesar urged me to institute the
latter contests. His pious words were:
"I can think of no better way to honor the God of light, the deadly archer,
divine Apollo."

As this contest is being held for the 1st time, the works presented shall
not be necessarily original, i.e. you can simply choose a text from a
ancient Roman author. Nevertheless, original works are encouraged.

The scheduling is the following:

July 11th: Poetry contest.
July 12th: Prose contest.
July 13th: Theatre play contest.

The days were chosen as to give the weekend for preparation.

Rules are the following:
- The work shall be posted both publicly to <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a> and
privately to the Aedilis Plebis (<a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>) in the due day (see
scheduling above) with:
- Subject = Ludi Apollinaris - X contest
(where X stands for Poetry, Prose or Theatre)
- Content = Latin text + English translation; followed by the names of
the author and sender. In case that the author is not the sender (i.e. the
work is not original) the complete reference of the text must be included.
- A sender can participate by sending one text only.
- After the Ludi are over, the texts shall be evaluated by a juri, and the
winner texts shall be made available on the NR Web site.

Feel free to ask if you have any doubt.

Valete omnes

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Aedilis Plebis et coetera


>>

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:49:55 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 7:43:52 PM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> writes:

<< Ok, how do I get in touch with them? >>

Go to the NR website. Under Pantheon look under Priests and Priesthoods.
E-mail anyone of the Pontiffs.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:56:35 -0700 (PDT)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> << Ok, how do I get in touch with them? >>
> Go to the NR website. Under Pantheon look under Priests and Priesthoods.
> E-mail anyone of the Pontiffs.

What's the turnaround time on the response?

I emailed about a week ago, possibly more.



-Andrea Gladia "Persistent, not nagging" Kyrinia ;)



===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:57:14 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 7:52:50 PM EST, <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> writes:

<< What's the turnaround time on the response?

I emailed about a week ago, possibly more.
>>

I believe it's now 4 months!

Only kidding...I really don't know.

--Dexippus

Subject:	Re: Fwd: [novaroma] Ludi Apollinaris
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:01:13 -0700 (PDT)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------; wrote:
> Salvete,
> I am forwarding this message after reading several others asking 'when to pay
> homage to Apollo and how.' You may also want to seek out an online Temple of
> Apollo and leave a prayer posted there(try
> www.angelfire.com/ma/signoftheharp). As the God of Poetry and the Arts, we
> will soon be doing Apollo honor in the below mentioned contests. We will be
> recognising His power and influence over the spoken and written word, and
> composing or reciting in His divine name. It is an act of faith and
> dedication, performed at each of Apollo's festivals in Antiqua, and I
> encourage people to participate. Apollo will be watching.


There is also <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_apollo.htm" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_apollo.htm</a>,
mirrored at
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7969/entrance_temple_apollo.htm" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7969/entrance_temple_apollo.htm</a>. I'm in
the process of moving due to the Yahoo-Geocities merger.



-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia





===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
-=* ~Amber's Domain~ *=-
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_top" >http://mail.yahoo.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	"Don and Crys Meaker" mater@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:02:36 -0500

On 7 Jul 99, at 17:56, Kyrene Ariadne wrote:

> What's the turnaround time on the response?
>
> I emailed about a week ago, possibly more.
>
>
>
> -Andrea Gladia "Persistent, not nagging" Kyrinia ;)

Did you give them your qualifications? That would be, if nothing
else, your years as a Pagan. You also need to tell them which
Priesthood you want (I did anyway). I got my Priesthood a couple
of days ago. I first applied about 18 months ago.

Crys
Gaius Cornelius Mamertinus and Amethystia Iunia-Cornelia Crystallina

Roman, let this be your care, your art: To beat down the proud, and teach the ways of peace.
Virgil

ICQ# 38493770
<a href="http://www.liberiorum.com" target="_top" >http://www.liberiorum.com</a>

Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:19:24 -0700 (PDT)

--- Don and Crys Meaker &-------- href="/post/novaroma?protectID=029166114056127135138082190036" >mater@--------&--------a> wrote:
> > What's the turnaround time on the response?
> > I emailed about a week ago, possibly more.
> > -Andrea Gladia "Persistent, not nagging" Kyrinia ;)
> Did you give them your qualifications? That would be, if nothing
> else, your years as a Pagan. You also need to tell them which
> Priesthood you want (I did anyway). I got my Priesthood a couple
> of days ago. I first applied about 18 months ago.

Oh yuck, I don't think that I did. :( That would help.


Thanks for the assistance!


-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia



===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Subject:	Re: Concerning the Religio
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:24:43 -0700 (PDT)

-- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------; wrote:
> << What's the turnaround time on the response?
> I emailed about a week ago, possibly more.
> >>
> I believe it's now 4 months!
> Only kidding...I really don't know.


Pbbbbtttt.

Sure, torture the poor newbie. ;)



-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia




===
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-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Subject:	Re: Fwd: [novaroma] Ludi Apollinaris
From:	BenBorgo@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 21:27:45 EDT

In a message dated 7/7/99 6:02:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=200028091056078198169061186140081090177098100046209130" >k--------eariadne@--------</a> writes:

Salve,

<<
There is also <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_apollo.htm" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_apollo.htm</a>,
mirrored at
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7969/entrance_temple_apollo.htm" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7969/entrance_temple_apollo.htm</a>. I'm
in
the process of moving due to the Yahoo-Geocities merger. >>

Many thanks Kyrinia, I shall visit before the Festival is through.

Vale,
Gn. Tarquinius Caesar

Subject:	Re: Fwd: [novaroma] Ludi Apollinaris
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:33:55 -0700 (PDT)

--- <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------; wrote:
> Salve,
> <<
> There is also <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_apollo.htm" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_apollo.htm</a>,
> mirrored at
> <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7969/entrance_temple_apollo.htm" target="_top" >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7969/entrance_temple_apollo.htm</a>. I'm
> in the process of moving due to the Yahoo-Geocities merger. >>
> Many thanks Kyrinia, I shall visit before the Festival is through.

Please do! I worked hard on the graphics, and am very proud of it. :)

There's also <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_dionysos.htm" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_dionysos.htm</a> for
those that honor Dionysos.



-Andrea Gladia Kyrinia


===
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-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Subject:	Re: I'm tired of resignations
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:33:49 -0700

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=132056131009152219130232203140129208071" >Dexippus@--------</--------;
>
> <a href="/post/novaroma?prote--------=243232178003185091033082" >amg@--------</a>
> writes:
>
> << Dictatorship is allowed by the Constitution during emergencies... and that
> is Roman. >>
>
> I'm not arguing that. But idly following one is not.
>
> --Dexippus

TRUE!

Ericius.

Subject:	Re: Religio Nova Roma
From:	Exitil@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:14:17 EDT

<<You are right. However we never said we were seeking Macro-Nation...please
read the website carefully.>>

In that case I appologize. I thought when you said NATION you meant a NATION
not micronation.... ::sigh:: Now I'm a little sad. I thought NR at least had
a little hope of becoming a nation.

Alex Novus, pondering resigning citizenship.

Subject:	Re: Religio Nova Roma
From:	Dexippus@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:04:32 EDT

In --------ss--------d-------- 7/7/99 9:15:06 PM EST, <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=113082020165082153015098190036129" >Exitil@--------</--------; writes:

<< In that case I appologize. I thought when you said NATION you meant a
NATION
not micronation.... ::sigh:: Now I'm a little sad. I thought NR at least
had
a little hope of becoming a nation. >>

Don't be sad. We are a NATION. Just as American Indians refer to themselves
in the form of Nations. What makes a nation? A group of people who share
common interests and goals. But let's be serious...could we really
accomplish MACRO-NATIONALITY with our legions and their gladius'? No offense
guys...you'all look so cute in those tunics!

--Dexippus

Subject:	Cinncinnatus
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:10:33 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Dictator Germanicus;

Sir; after some lengthy consideration, I must notify you that although I
do not have the high-sounding words of Senator Martianalis, I agree with
his premise. I too swear to you that in my lengthy involvement with
Cinncinnatus he has never done anything illegal or to deliberately
damage NR in any way. You have very kindly said that you were glad to
see me restored to NR and that I was a valuable addition to such. My
honesty has never been brought into question on this net or any other
that I am involved in. I am a Mason (32nd Degree) and a long time
leader in the BSA, and a leader in several other organizations in whom
brotherhood and truth are held in as high regard as in NR. I served as
a Naval Officer for 7 years and as an enlisted man for 13 years prior to
that, and my word is recognized throughout my old shipmates as well as
my new friends as being the absolute truth. I reiterate to you now that
had Cinncinnatus ever intended anything remotely illegal, that as a
member of his political family I would have known about it as well as
Martianus, and such was not so..

I appreciate your allowing me to return. or as you have said "You never
left" and I appreciate what you are doing for the NR. Something in my
estimation it could not do for itself. I do not oppose your
Dictatorship, as the time for that if it ever comes is not presently
right in my estimation. However, I disagree with your persecution of
Cinncinnatus, simply because I know that you are wrong. I asked you
earlier to consider a lesser sentence and you obligd me in that, and I
thank you for your consideration. I must now make this announcement to
you, though it cost me my place, such as it is, I will take up the gage
for Cinncinnatus at the end of your service to the extent that it is
required to free this man from, as has previously been said,, a most
unjust accusation.

Further in the absence of proof to the contrary, this sentence draws a
veil over your achiements to date, which would otherwise be significant.

I am sorry to have to bring these charges against you, and even sorrier
because you have treated me generously, but the situation is clearly
unfair and clearly self-serving. I cannot stand by and watch tyranny
and more than I could stand by and watch sloth eat away at the underside
of this "OUR" Micronation, Nova Roma.

Vale, Dictator Germanicus;
Very Respectfully and Most Sincerely;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: Announcement
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:07:47 -0700

Salve, Audens.

You Know what I thought about your "resignation". The copy I got happened to fall into
the brazier. Now don't you think you should get back to your post. The Legion did not
stop sending work your way. LOL The Roman soldier. Tough as boiled armor.
Superstitious as an Egyptian. As sentimental as a Sabine grandmother.
Blasted hayfever.! =({[:.-)

Bene vale.
Ericius

Subject:	Re: Cinncinnatus
From:	Razenna razenna@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:27:46 -0700

Hear him! Hear him!
This man is to be believed.

James Mathews wrote:

> From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
> Salve, Dictator Germanicus;
>
> Sir; after some lengthy consideration, I must notify you that although I
> do not have the high-sounding words of Senator Martianalis, I agree with
> his premise. I too swear to you that in my lengthy involvement with
> Cinncinnatus he has never done anything illegal or to deliberately
> damage NR in any way. You have very kindly said that you were glad to
> see me restored to NR and that I was a valuable addition to such. My
> honesty has never been brought into question on this net or any other
> that I am involved in. I am a Mason (32nd Degree) and a long time
> leader in the BSA, and a leader in several other organizations in whom
> brotherhood and truth are held in as high regard as in NR. I served as
> a Naval Officer for 7 years and as an enlisted man for 13 years prior to
> that, and my word is recognized throughout my old shipmates as well as
> my new friends as being the absolute truth. I reiterate to you now that
> had Cinncinnatus ever intended anything remotely illegal, that as a
> member of his political family I would have known about it as well as
> Martianus, and such was not so..
>
> I appreciate your allowing me to return. or as you have said "You never
> left" and I appreciate what you are doing for the NR. Something in my
> estimation it could not do for itself. I do not oppose your
> Dictatorship, as the time for that if it ever comes is not presently
> right in my estimation. However, I disagree with your persecution of
> Cinncinnatus, simply because I know that you are wrong. I asked you
> earlier to consider a lesser sentence and you obligd me in that, and I
> thank you for your consideration. I must now make this announcement to
> you, though it cost me my place, such as it is, I will take up the gage
> for Cinncinnatus at the end of your service to the extent that it is
> required to free this man from, as has previously been said,, a most
> unjust accusation.
>
> Further in the absence of proof to the contrary, this sentence draws a
> veil over your achiements to date, which would otherwise be significant.
>
> I am sorry to have to bring these charges against you, and even sorrier
> because you have treated me generously, but the situation is clearly
> unfair and clearly self-serving. I cannot stand by and watch tyranny
> and more than I could stand by and watch sloth eat away at the underside
> of this "OUR" Micronation, Nova Roma.
>
> Vale, Dictator Germanicus;
> Very Respectfully and Most Sincerely;
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
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>
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Subject:	My Post
From:	jmath669642reng@--------)
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:37:08 -0400 (EDT)

Salve, Senator Ericus;

Sir, with great respect, my post is exactly where I am standing. I am
a Citizen of Nova Roma, Paterfamilus of the Gens Minucia and a member of
the Sodalitas Militum. I am also proud to serve as a Milles Immunes
(gromaciti, agrimmensores, and gubernator) in the XXth Legio and as an
Engineer / Architect in the XXIVth Legio,both of which are in my
province of studies.

To which post do you refer?? I have not been re-appointed to my
previous elected position of Quaestor, because the Dictator has made
other arrangements. I have unfortunately resigned my commission as
Tribunus Laticlavus of the Sodalitas Militum and my Lagatus Civicus
position for the Regio Connecticut, during my "dark time" and they
cannot be restored except by those who first granted them (Consul and
Pro-Consul) and the fact that these gentlemen have not done so, would
indicate that they do not wish to, as they have all been notified.
Those appointments are for the named gentlemen to make as when I reach
that exalted position I shall make similar ones..

What would you have me do? You are probably correct in your assumption
that I am stubborn, bull-headed and intractable. I prefer to refer to
it as honor. I took something away from others, it is only right that I
should lose something as well. That is a philosophy that I have which
goes along with the other distubing aspects of my nature. If there is
anything that I may do specifically for you as one in my positon may
carry out, I would be very pleased to do so..

Vale, Senator Ericus;
Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

Subject:	Re: My Post
From:	Gail and Thomas Gangale gangale@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:51:54 -0700 (PDT)

At 11:37 PM 7/7/99 -0400, James Mathews wrote:
>From: <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=045232113165042200148200112241225012177026038196249130152150" >jmath669642reng@--------</a> (James Mathe--------/font>
>
>I have unfortunately resigned my commission as
>Tribunus Laticlavus of the Sodalitas Militum and my Lagatus Civicus
>position for the Regio Connecticut, during my "dark time" and they
>cannot be restored except by those who first granted them (Consul and
>Pro-Consul) and the fact that these gentlemen have not done so, would
>indicate that they do not wish to, as they have all been notified.

Oh, what dark times are these when young ruffians can roam the streets and
say "Nee!" to an old woman!

Martianus
-------------
Tom and Gail Gangale
<a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=123166234108158153184218249036129208" >gangale@--------</a>
<a href="http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm" target="_top" >http://www.jps.net/gangale/homepage.htm</a>
Mars Society California
The Martian Time Web Site
The Martian Ministry of Culture
Nova Roma
World GenWeb Calabria
Bunny Hill (and Catsville Too)
The National Primary System
The Art of Darius

Subject:	Re: Temple of Juppiter
From:	"Darth Vilmur; Dark Lord of The Sith" darth_vilmur@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 21:38:04 -0700

salve....
regarding the temple of jupiter and message,chat and what not areas...they are
always available(exceot during the occasional downtimes) to me....it may be the
browsers that are being used to access my page...i will research this problem at
once
and if it would not be too much trouble, could the people who have had trouble
accessing the chat rooms and what not let me know type of browsers they are
using.
thank you
Californius

<--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------; wrote:

> From: <--------ef="/post/nov----------------otectID=023056234037193209048149203140129208071" >BenBorgo@--------</--------;
>
> Salve,
>
> I have visited the Temple many times, and have found that the chat room,
> message board/prayer log, aren't functioning. To my knowledge they never
> have, this may explain the lack of patronage. I'm sure if they were working,
> they'd be used.
>
> Vale,
> Gn. Tarquinius Caesar
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: your connection to online communities.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:	Re: Some Thoughts.
From:	Kyrene Ariadne kyreneariadne@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:32:00 -0700 (PDT)

--- Steven Rob--------n <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=243232178182078116015056190036129" >amgunn@--------</a> wrote:
> Secondus: Religio - I am a child of my Holy Ones. They are part and parcel
> of my being. Each day I acknowledge them and try to live a worthy life as I
> think would make my Unseen Parents take pride in me. The Roman Religion is
> more formal than mine own Asatru, I hail the Sun and Wind, Sky and Earth
> each morning, I pour a libation to the honor of the Mighty Ones of the
> North, the Spirits, and the Ancestors each day. I keep the main Holy Days
> with a little more formality, and give formal sacrifice to UllR of the Bow
> at the start of each hunting season. I believe that the Olympians exist,
> that they are cousins to mine own Holy Ones, within the broader
> Indo-European family of deities. (In subtext: I do believe that the God of
> the Christians exists. I ask only that they do me the same courtesy.) I am
> a Citizen of Nova Roma because, in spite of the historical animus between
> our cultural ancestors, I want a re-awakening of the Religio Roman to not
> only survive, but THRIVE. The more heathens and pagans, the better. I also
> hope that Nova Roma can continue to be the refuge that Christians such as
> Lucius Marius Fimbria need. I am proud to call him Comespiritu, for while
> our Gods and Religious practices may be different, we share (I think) the
> same basic Faith. Grab on to the Religio, with both hands! Read the
> available documents! Study the archaeology! Stand Tall! Be proud to have
> Romanitas! The Religio must be as air, food and water to the nourishment of
> your body. Proclaim your pride in the Olympians!

Hear, hear! :)

As a Hellenic pagan among other various paths, I cannot help but be rather
biased towards this idea.

I'd love to see more of the Religio, and learn more about the Roman end of
religion.... I know it through the Hellenic part, but there are many
differences that I'm only beginning to learn about... I hope to learn more
here. I'm apparently being pushed--no, SHOVED--towards Roman religion. :> I
guess that Apollo likes me there... along with Dionysos/Bacchus,
Hermes/Mercurius.... ;)

I was also recently named materfamilias of Gladia... it appears that I'm now
the only one in the gens.... Anyone who already holds the head of their gens
with advice for me, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm very sad to lose Saevus
from this organization, but I will be keeping in touch with him, and I hope
others will as well.



Valete et khairete,


Andrea Gladia Kyrinia




===
-=* Kyrene Ariadne/Lolandrea Psikine'Aelanar *=-
-=* O'mra AirgeadFaol/Andreia *=-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=* <a href="http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/" target="_top" >http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/</a> *=-
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Subject:	PAX FOR MY lord APOLLO
From:	william wheeler wuffa@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 23:12:01 +0100

Salvete Gangalius, Dexippus et al.
HOW do you continue to fight with one another, to fight during the feast
to
Apollo?
This must stop right now! (Profanity never helps! Marcus.)

Do not get in my way, Sir. We are trying to straighten our NR, but your

attacks are not helping. Yes, I understand your friend was, in your
opinion,
wrongly accused.
The dictator sees different. Perhaps later there will be redress, but
this
immediate moment it will not happen. As the offices continue to
function and
NR calms down
I give you my personal assurance the matter will be studied. Right now
though be satisfied with Lucius Equitius Cincinatus having his
citizenship
restored and allowed to resume his religious office again.
M.Cornelius Felix
ROMAN

Subject:	WARNING #2
From:	william wheeler wuffa@--------
Date:	Wed, 07 Jul 1999 23:35:57 +0100

Since I have been appointed Pontifex, I feel it is my religious duty to
compel some of our citizens, given the holidays that we are celebrating
to
reflect and ponder the virtues that Nova Roma. The ancient Republic was

modeled on these virtues and our Modern Republic should be modeled on
these
same virtues. All of this conflict must cease.

I, based on my authority as a religious officer I want this hostility
and
unvirtuous behavior to cease. If it doenst I feel I will have to take
the
most Roman step of litigation to make these actions stop from disrupting
the
healing process of Nova Roma.

I Declare this LEX
starting NOON EST JULY the 8th till the games for APOLLO are OVER
or the 21st of JULY till then there will be PAX!
all Partys to this Conflict will will STOP posting to the LIST about.
YOU someone to yell at I will hear you on my phone (503-234-7133)
or in EMAIL.
ALSO I am working on it and need to talk to all about as I DO NOT KNOW
what,how,when,why
( not that I care) then I will look at it all and say in any count( not
that we have one yet) what i think BUT FOR NOW PAX
THATS 2!
I want this to work out but this unvirtuous behavior will CEASE
( ie if for the next 2 week you can not something nice send it to me
BEFORE
you send it to the list)
This goes for You too Sulla, QFM ,

thank you all for the LOVE you ahow NR
now THINK ABOUT APOLLO
Vale

Subject:	Re: WARNING #2
From:	"RCW" alexious@--------
Date:	Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:31:29 -0700

Hah hahaha.....moi! ;) I havent said a word!!!! :) "Son!" LOL.....I have
been very silent for the most part..... :)

L. Cornelius Sulla
Praetor Urbanus
----- Original Message -----
From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
To: NR list <a href="mailto:novaroma@--------" >novaroma@--------</a>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 3:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] WARNING #2


> From: w--------am wheeler <a href="/post/novaroma?protectID=125075047121158135036082190036" >wuffa@--------</a>
>
> Since I have been appointed Pontifex, I feel it is my religious duty to
> compel some of our citizens, given the holidays that we are celebrating
> to
> reflect and ponder the virtues that Nova Roma. The ancient Republic was
>
> modeled on these virtues and our Modern Republic should be modeled on
> these
> same virtues. All of this conflict must cease.
>
> I, based on my authority as a religious officer I want this hostility
> and
> unvirtuous behavior to cease. If it doenst I feel I will have to take
> the
> most Roman step of litigation to make these actions stop from disrupting
> the
> healing process of Nova Roma.
>
> I Declare this LEX
> starting NOON EST JULY the 8th till the games for APOLLO are OVER
> or the 21st of JULY till then there will be PAX!
> all Partys to this Conflict will will STOP posting to the LIST about.
> YOU someone to yell at I will hear you on my phone (503-234-7133)
> or in EMAIL.
> ALSO I am working on it and need to talk to all about as I DO NOT KNOW
> what,how,when,why
> ( not that I care) then I will look at it all and say in any count( not
> that we have one yet) what i think BUT FOR NOW PAX
> THATS 2!
> I want this to work out but this unvirtuous behavior will CEASE
> ( ie if for the next 2 week you can not something nice send it to me
> BEFORE
> you send it to the list)
> This goes for You too Sulla, QFM ,
>
> thank you all for the LOVE you ahow NR
> now THINK ABOUT APOLLO
> Vale
>
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>
> ONElist: your connection to online communities.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>